Kevin Waugaman: Real Estate Coaching, Mentoring and Consulting

Kevin Waugaman: Real Estate Coaching, Mentoring and Consulting
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Tracy Hayes: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Real Estate Excellence podcast. Today's guest rose through the ranks to lead one of the largest brokerages in Northeast Florida before starting his own company, Momentors. Momentors is a coaching, mentoring, and consulting company to help individuals rise to new levels in their career while achieving a better quality of life.

Tracy Hayes: Better relationships and financial success. He has been part of the John Maxwell leadership certified team, which I admire as a John Maxwell fan. Let's welcome this dynamic individual with nearly two decades of real estate and coaching success, the founder and CEO of Momentors, Kevin Wagemann to the show.

Kevin: Thank you, Tracy. Appreciate you having me. 

Tracy Hayes: I did pronounce your last name correctly. 

Kevin: Nailed it. 

Tracy Hayes: Appreciate that. Uh, that's always a, always a, a challenge. And I was gonna, I always, when I'm taking my notes and preparing pre show, I'm like, I better ask him how to pronounce his last name. And I always forget, but, uh, yeah, appreciate you coming down.

Tracy Hayes: I know you've got an event on July 19th. It's going to be over at, um, at landmark, but as I mentioned, pre [00:01:00] show, I think there's a lot of agents out there, hopefully a lot of the listeners out there, uh, that knows a lot of the top agents that I've had on have had a momentum or a momentum

Tracy Hayes: mentor or coach at some time or another. And, um, and what role obviously you play in coming in the services because having spent, you know, what is probably what, uh, 15, 16 years at least right before you opened your company in real estate. Hands on every day and what you what you bring. So, um, looking forward to that.

Tracy Hayes: So I want to kick off the show though, as my, my sponsor, uh, here, uh, mentioned that before I forget, cause I always do, um, these nice, uh, mugs from Remy graphics. These laser engraved mugs. Uh, this is not the only thing Remy graphics does. Uh, she does a lot of other laser engraving stuff and you can get one off.

Tracy Hayes: So if you're doing a closing and you want to put John and Sally, welcome to Jacksonville, St. Augustine, whatever. She'll do one or two [00:02:00] mugs for you, if that's all you need. So, um, let alone the other products that she offers at Remy graphics. So, um, Kevin, where are you from? 

Kevin: Born and raised in Stewart, Florida.

Kevin: Actually. Frankly, all up and down the east coast of Florida, my dad was a developer, so we moved around a lot. So I've called everywhere from Alamrata to Jacksonville home and absolutely love it here. So lived in Stewart for a while until high school years, moved up to Jacksonville for for four years for high school, went to Episcopal High School, Jacksonville, then North Carolina for college and then back to Jacksonville to start my professional career at Merrill Lynch.

Kevin: So, 

Tracy Hayes: uh, so going, you went to Elon, right? What was at that time, 18, 19, 20 years old, what did you visualize yourself as a career? 

Kevin: Financial advisor. I was a big fan of, uh, talk about full circle, Warren Buffett. Uh, one of the first books I ever read was called [00:03:00] the making of an American capitalist about Warren Buffett.

Kevin: So, uh, went to, uh, to Elon and that was going to be, uh, my, my focus was finance business administration with a concentration in finance and I was going to go and be a financial advisor. So got hired at Merrill Lynch right out of college, uh, went to work for their credit division. This was Merrill Lynch credit corporation.

Kevin: Right. Back in the 90s, originating, well, client services was the job. It was basically taking applications for mortgages. And that was over in the town center, excuse me, the uh, yeah, town center area, which used to be Cal, it was Florida Blue, Merrill Lynch, and Cal Pastures, which is now the St. John's town center.

Kevin: And so that's where I started and then moved into asset management. Ended up going to work in Miami for, uh, project management and business analysis and decided, uh, for a variety of reasons, which I'm sure we'll get into financial services wasn't for me and ended up getting into real estate. 

Tracy Hayes: What is it that you didn't like about it?

Kevin: Well, the real, the real thing [00:04:00] was when I was working in Miami, I had an incredible mentor and a fantastic individual at what I did not see at that point, though, was what my future would look like. There was a shift in me at some point that it wasn't going to be sales for me. It was going to be leadership.

Kevin: And at the same time, my dad. When my parents were divorced when I was 10, my dad was moving back to the Stewart area. And I was living in Miami at the time, and I thought, you know, Why don't I do something with Dad, you know? And, uh, so he and I talked. We looked at everything. We looked at dealerships, subway franchises, cash plus stores, you know, where you get the payday loan.

Kevin: We looked all these different opportunities. Well, like I mentioned, he'd been a developer and so real estate was kind of already in my blood. It was in my DNA and I started getting interested and at the time real estate was going gangbusters. We're talking 2004 right now. So we started talking about this and it's like, Why don't you go work for a company for a couple years, you know, get your broker's license and we'll put together our own deal and, and we'll, uh, [00:05:00] we'll, we'll go into business together.

Kevin: And that all sounded amazing in 2000, 2004. Right? Right. And so I started going down this, this path. I, I, I le, I left a good job, went to a Premier Realty group. Are you 

Tracy Hayes: married at this time? 

Kevin: Not yet. 

Tracy Hayes: Okay. That's that makes it a little easier. 

Kevin: I go work. I go to work for Premier Realty Group. I interviewed three companies.

Kevin: Two of them gave me their policy manual and offered me a desk. I ruled them out immediately. Premier Realty Group. I interviewed with Legend Ron noise, who was spent a lot of years in the prudential, um, network and Steve Bonner, who was one of the most brilliant real estate minds I've ever known. It was a small company in Stewart, Florida, but they really cared.

Kevin: And obviously they, they had the, uh, wherewithal to vet the people that were going to come work for their company. So 

Tracy Hayes: how did that impress you? Because one of the things, if you may not have listened to my episodes before, but with the agents themselves, how important it is to really vet. the broker they team [00:06:00] up with.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. There's no question. It's important. You don't, it's not a decision that you want to make multiple times and make a bunch of moves in your career, in my, in my opinion. And so when I went from. Hey, you know, we like you immediately to here's the desk to someone who is basically a series of three meetings and it was me and they were, they were more impressed with the questions that I was asking in addition to the answers of the questions that they were asking me because they wanted someone that really cared about.

Kevin: about what they were doing. And, and they wanted somebody that was going to reflect the brand appropriately and not just be out there while did 

Tracy Hayes: you, did you know they were a very selective group when you went in? Because I know there's brokers in town listening to different agents. There are some brokers who are very selective others, or just give me a warm body.

Tracy Hayes: Um, in, so they are actually interviewed and listening to what you're saying to decide whether or not they want to bring you in. Into the mix 

Kevin: Yeah, so I you know, look there are different models out there and different flavors for [00:07:00] everybody. I totally get that for me Brand new brand made a huge It was a huge deal for me and it was one of the biggest so I so you asked me if I knew they were selective Going in well The way they, the way they handle themselves is what part of what to listen.

Kevin: And I also talked to other people. I mean, I did my homework. I looked back then I looked at the advertising that they were doing. I looked at the website. I talked to people in the industry and I, I started getting a sense for the different types of business models. You know, you have a wide range of them.

Kevin: You have, you have the full service model. It's going to do a whole lot for you. And the splits are going to be different than the model that's not going to do as much for you, but the splits are going to be higher and everything in between. And so, you know, right from the get go, I realized how important, what really is important is, is it a fit for you?

Kevin: Is it a culture fit? Does it align with your values? Does it align with, does the company philosophy align with what you're trying to accomplish and treat people the way you want to be treated? And that to me was super important. Not only For me early on in my [00:08:00] career, but then as we, as I became the leader of that company and then in future leadership roles, 

Tracy Hayes: well, I mean, you know, he's, he's got a couple of decades working in and around real estate agents.

Tracy Hayes: Um, the importance of that connection, that like I said, we do have some people that bounce around and, and, um, I, Remember what Caitlin Doherty said with DJ and Lindsay, which is like, yeah, I think agents, they're looking for, they're looking for that connection instead of doing some of the homework out before they go and sign up.

Tracy Hayes: They're just jumping brokerages every year or some of them even sooner than that and hoping to find something that just clicks for them. 

Kevin: Yeah, I think sometimes it's that. And I think sometimes it's, you know, this is hard work and sometimes we're looking for an external solution to something that's an internal job that needs to happen.

Kevin: And you know, you can, you can, if you're determined, you're going to, a lot of good companies out there, you're going to make it work. But there's a lot of inside work that the, the, the concept that, that it's not working for me here, I better go [00:09:00] somewhere else. Maybe that's the thing. Maybe it's I'm not connecting with my broker or the philosophy doesn't line up, but maybe it's.

Kevin: Man, there's something I need to, inside that I need to fix, or I need to do, or I need to, you know, develop some better habits in order to make this thing work. I try to tell people, look, before you, before you make a move, you go, go all in wherever you are. Cause sometimes you see people make a move, they haven't gone all in before they're, you know, out the door.

Kevin: Right, 

Tracy Hayes: right. We'll dig deep, a little deeper in that when we start digging into Momentors. Um, alright, so in 2005 ish, you joined Premier. Yes, that's based on your LinkedIn. That's what you had there. Um, obviously, you know, within well, really 12 months, we're starting to feel it. I know my, my parents were selling a house in Naples and, uh, was early, you know, probably may of 2006 and the market had already started to turn down, uh, at that time.

Tracy Hayes: So tell us a little bit about being a real estate agent, a new real estate agent. During this time period. 

Kevin: Yeah, [00:10:00] I'll never forget it. Uh, it was a good job. I left at Merrill Lynch. I, I, my, my very first sales meeting, and this was 2005, my very first sales meeting, I sit down and I mentioned Steve Bonner, who's owner of the company and brightest mind, you know, brightest real estate mind probably to this day that I've ever encountered.

Kevin: And my very first sales meeting, he's, uh, there's 20 people in the room. He stands up in front of everybody and he goes, he goes, I want everyone to know one thing out of the salesman and one thing only, and that is the party is almost over. And I, and I'm looking at the guy like, what are you talking about?

Kevin: I mean, you know, you look at CNBC, wall street journey. If you want to make millions, you go into real estate. And he's the only person I've heard say this. I'm like, who is this guy? All right. Like, well, I'm going to, you know, but he was looking at the leading indicators. He was looking at consumer confidence.

Kevin: He was looking at, you know, sales versus end users. He was looking at, it was looking at everything. that was, that was gonna, that was painting this picture in his mind. He was an economist, he'd buy trade and it was painting this picture that was coming down the road. So, so I didn't buy in, it was probably a good thing that I didn't buy in because that kind of [00:11:00] helped me, you know, maybe be a little bit naive to what was coming.

Kevin: And so I started working and, and here's, you know, to try to give a little bit of value, this might be me speaking to the newer agents out there right now. Um, There are some mistakes you can make when you're, when you're early in real estate that don't feel like they're mistakes. You can spend a lot of time working and make 0.

Kevin: And one of the things that I started doing was I started working on the periphery and things that were really comfortable, you know, postcards, sending emails. Um, I, uh, I, I really enjoyed going to classes and learning everything, which I've, I'm a coach now, obviously I believe in education and personal development, but you can overdo it.

Kevin: You know, you, the real learning. Tests are out there in the field. And so I got, I got really comfortable into a comfort zone and really struggled for, for a couple of years and until my water got shut off and then it was kind of an aha moment for me. Right. And this, this, I'm not telling this story because, because I'm proud of it, you know, that I had to hit that bottom of the barrel before I got my head out of my, you know, [00:12:00] what?

Kevin: But, uh, the, the water got shut off. I'll never forget. I was actually taking a shower and the water got shut off. I went to, I gathered a bunch of change, went to Publix, filled up some water jugs, came back, finished taking a shower and just thought, and thankfully not married at the time, no kids, man, I'm never going to put myself in this position again.

Kevin: I'm not going to, this is, this is nuts. And so from that day forward, I got to the office, had my meeting, the decision and started prospecting expires. And now I'm, now I'm doing the face to face voice to voice, getting out of my comfort zone, doing the stuff that really matters that really makes a difference.

Kevin: And I went from dead last in my company and sales to second, I won't lie and say first, I was second to their top producer over a 12 month period. And, and that was a big deal over, over such a short period of time. It was only my third full year in real estate. But it's like, man, you, you, you, to the newer age, I mean, you got it.

Kevin: You just got to get, you got to get out there. You got to get uncomfortable, get dirty. You got to get, you got to get dirty. And, and, and I think it's, it seems so obvious, but man, you can really keep yourself busy in any sales business really, and [00:13:00] not be where the rubber meets, rubber meets the road. So it was very brutal to answer your question.

Kevin: It was brutal over a period of time. 

Tracy Hayes: And now you're, you're put to, you're put to the wall, water shut off. You start, you, you said to call on the, uh, expireds. Did you sit there and dwell on some sort of script or you, you just, 

Kevin: yeah. That's a great question. Uh, for me, I realized that scripts weren't the thing I started putting together a, a more of a call structure that I basically said, I'm going to have an opening, I'm going to have some questions I'm going to ask, and then I'm going to close.

Kevin: And then I had different things that I might say in each one of those sections predicated on how the conversation goes. So I'm not just, I'm not sounding like a robot and you're inviting people. And when I, so we started having some success there. The other thing that I did during this time is, you know, I started making the calls and I started knocking on doors.

Kevin: It's something expired. I knew that other people were calling, but not many people were going to knock on doors. So I was showing up knocking on doors. Another thing that was, uh, powerful for me was I partnered with a more experienced agent. So [00:14:00] situational partnering can be a very powerful thing. Because I didn't have the name recognition.

Kevin: So what I did, I, I went to, his name's Leon Abood, who's a great mentor of mine. He and I stay in touch. Great, great man. And we started doing this together. Well, I started doing all the prospecting, but he let me use his name. You know, my name's Kevin. I work with Leon. Here's what we're going to do. And we're going to come in and we're going to, you know, get your house sold.

Kevin: We, we are experts in taking expired properties and breathing life into them and then getting, getting them sold. And so we started having some success there and it started working and that started snowballing. And next thing I knew I had multiple transactions and we, we got the thing going. And then, uh, at that point, I'll go back to some of the other details, but at that point, my, my, the owner of the company who knew I also had leadership experience from a job at Merrill Lynch, he needed to get rid of his sales manager.

Kevin: So asked me to step into that role. So that's, I moved. That was my next 

Tracy Hayes: question. Cause you kind of roll in leadership pretty early. 

Kevin: I moved, I was four years basically in direct sales and then I moved into, uh, into leadership, [00:15:00] but, but that expired. So the expired thing, uh, was super difficult, but. that is the most for anybody out there listening that needs to get a listing.

Kevin: That is the most immediate source of listing business because you have someone that's already decided to sell and already decided that they're willing to pay a commission. And so you, if you want to get listings and there are fewer, at this time in the marketplace, this was back in 2007, 2008, there were lots of them, you know, people, you know, buyers were, I mean, the month supply of inventory went from two months to 30 months.

Kevin: So a lot of properties were coming off the market. Um, That's we're starting to see some of that again today after what 

Tracy Hayes: were some of the conversations you were having because I imagine Wow, just Knowing what would happen. I was I started mortgages in 05 So I I know it was somewhat going on but from you were out on the street I'm i'm sitting in a call center at quick and loans.

Tracy Hayes: So I was a little different Although the phones were were much quieter than they were um and and say uh right up in the in the 2006 and summer 7 it was very slow, [00:16:00] but You Was it a lot of them understanding that I needed to drop the price? What were, where, what was a lot of the hangups of why they couldn't move the property?

Kevin: Well, 

Tracy Hayes: where you came in and obviously 

Kevin: the buyer pool had shrunk dramatically. A lot of people had gotten themselves multiple units and there was no end user. There were not enough people to rent them out. There were not enough people to buy the flips that they were doing. So, you know, what we needed to do was look at, we always, it's hard to just tell someone that price is the issue.

Kevin: So we all, and that's not always the issue. It's either a turn. It's, it's the price. Condition, marketing, and price. Those are the three main functions in terms of how you're, how you're getting your property sold. So we would go evaluate all three and in 2008, frankly, a lot of it was pricing and we saw major price reductions needed to happen in order to get property sold.

Kevin: And, you know, then we started working through and, you know, this short sales and. foreclosures and trying to figure out that monster. I mean, I was doing short sales before they had all the loss mitigators and all the, all the farms that were doing them for you. We were figuring out [00:17:00] how to do them as realtors and, and that was a, that was a crazy time as well.

Kevin: But yeah, it was, those were the conversations. It was, you know, eyeball to eyeball with someone telling them information that they didn't necessarily want to hear. 

Tracy Hayes: One of the, so you, you replaced the sales manager. Who my first assumption would be was not adapting to the times because the times are changing For a real in real estate and how you work in real estate whether you know the short sales which oh wait No, nine were you know, like pulling teeth they got better as the institutions got a little You know more proficient and what they were doing that to move these houses move these short sales and so forth but I in looking in going back to the subject of talking about the agents bouncing from broker to broker.

Tracy Hayes: In this case, she had a sales manager. And obviously this owner thought was probably getting stale. Would, would, 

Kevin: is that a, so he had strengths and at the same time he never had experience selling real estate. Oh. And so I think that was [00:18:00] more of his issue is getting buy in and trying to coach agents when he hadn't walked.

Kevin: in their shoes. And so I think because I had the leadership experience and now the owner saw me getting some traction in sales, understanding that I've now know how to sit down and list a house price reductions, work with buyers. I I've developed a buyer consultation system before a lot of agents even even did that.

Kevin: Like, because I came from financial services and you had a, you had a big presentation for anybody you were sitting down and talking to. So, so I, you know, I had, I had, you know, a little bit more of a, I kind of brought a little bit of corporate it. So I had systems that I started putting together and I think he looked at that and he said, I think I can use this in helping coach and train some of the agents that we're bringing on board right now.

Kevin: And I had some cred with the credibility with the more experienced agents as well, because they saw me. You reached that number two 

Tracy Hayes: spot. Yeah. Um, and you earned it. You, you, uh, worked through it. It wasn't something that just You didn't hit it on a 2020 and, and put a stick in the yard [00:19:00] and someone was going to buy it.

Kevin: Um, and that's what, and so if I can just say this real quick, that's, I tell the story not to try to impress anyone, but so that people understand that it's happening. The market doesn't matter. I'm not going to sit here and say that, you know, the hot market doesn't matter. A cold market doesn't matter. It matters.

Kevin: But I know a lot of people, myself included, that had their best years in the worst of markets. And so there's opportunity in all markets. And that's really what the message is, is, you know, there's some, there's some challenging times always coming up. and that doesn't mean we need to get out of the business.

Kevin: That doesn't mean we need to jump ship. It just means we need to maybe reevaluate what we're doing and make adjustments. 

Tracy Hayes: I think I want to say was Matthew Rathbun. I don't know if you know, Matthew was down here for the RE bar camp and he speaks nationally at a lot of real estate conferences. He's a real estate agent in Southern, I think it was Richmond, Virginia's race, but he, his point with all these, All these things that, uh, all the agents are being told to do right now, you know, obviously you got artificial intelligence coming out, you know, [00:20:00] video, video, video.

Tracy Hayes: Um, and he's like, if you don't have, I just want your opinion on the statement of what, if you believe it or not, because talking about the actual broker or leader in your office, he said, if you're, if your broker isn't out there doing it himself, it's very hard for them to really, you know, You know, bring it to their team as it sounds like this particular person probably as the market changed He was really a fish out of water And in figuring out how to how to get through these things.

Tracy Hayes: What what is your you know, just your vision on And what a broker, they don't, they being out in front of their people is so important. 

Kevin: Well, I think being out in front of the people is important. I think it works both ways. I think you can be, I'll be honest because when I became a broker down there, I became a non competing broker.

Kevin: I gave up my book of business and, and now I'm not doing it, but As a broker, even if you're non competing, you can be on the front lines a lot with your people. You can go on listing appointments, you can sit [00:21:00] down at the negotiation table. I've done this even as recently as being up here in the chair. I was in Berkshire Hathaway.

Kevin: You can definitely get front lines. And if you're committed to the craft and you're, and you're learning the forms and you're, you know, you're, you're, you're, asking them questions as much as you're trying to coach. I mean, a lot of big part of coaching is asking questions and learning along alongside of someone because when they're teaching you at the same time, they're learning, you're learning, we're all learning.

Kevin: So, so I th I, I think you could do it both ways. I mean, for me, the, the competing broker model is just a challenge because generally speaking, something, In my experience, something ends up by suffering and, and, and some, and some aren't able to do it. Some, it's just, I'm going to go do my real estate practice and therefore this part, the management part is going to suffer or I'm going to do this part so well that this part's going to suck.

Kevin: So that was always my, my, my thought process. But you know, some people are able to crush it doing that. 

Tracy Hayes: No, I, I think, I mean, uh, Yeah, there are there are some [00:22:00] brokers in town who aren't producing, but they are actively out there. Like you said, they're engaging with the agents. They're finding out what's going on.

Tracy Hayes: And then sharing obviously with the others, you know, because you can only be working with so many transactions at any one time. Uh, you know, to me, I always want to talking to people talking about being in mortgages. Having been in a call center, the first 12 years of my life, I've written more loans than any of these guys out on the streets have because we're volume and writing at times 35 40 deals, um, uh, in a month, uh, during some of these hot refinance times, you're looking at credit report.

Tracy Hayes: You have any credit reports you need to, you know, pull and see, is that thing, does this smell, is this going to get through? You learn those things by at bats. And the only way to me, a broker in a real estate office, can stay out in front is either they're doing it themselves or they're so engaged with their people, learning about what they're dealing.

Tracy Hayes: They're, uh, as you know, every real estate transaction has always got a couple of curve balls in it and you gotta navigate through and get these deals done [00:23:00] and you've got to absorb. All that stuff in. So you could take this and hand it over here to these people. 

Kevin: No question. Boots on the ground matters. I mean, you're out there, you're going on the caravans, you're, you're doing the sales meetings, you're talking to your people, you're doing hopefully quarterly or twice a year reviews with them, checking in with them.

Kevin: What are your challenges? What are you facing right now? Yeah, you're engaged. 

Tracy Hayes: Since we're on this part of this questions out there, uh, you're, you're, you're coaching agents. You, you, you're deeply involved in the industry. Um, uh, these brokers need to be out in front on this and holding our settlement thing because, uh, you know, we all have our opinion on it, but.

Tracy Hayes: We've got to keep the troops in line, so to speak, keep the positive energy going and not, uh, look for the, uh, uh, the positive outcome. If you want to call it that, what, what is your, uh, you know, I know you're interacting with agents. What are some of the things that you're hopefully spinning them in the right direction?

Tracy Hayes: Yeah. 

Kevin: Well, you know, we're [00:24:00] going to spend a lot of time on July 19th at landmark title talking about this. Two things right now that are your quote unquote potential disruptors, which is. Overused term, but you have the settlement and then you have how people are engaging with artificial intelligence and and and my my thoughts on both of those are they are, they are potentially existential only for certain people and for the people that are going to adapt and make the moves and do the right things.

Kevin: There's gonna be so much tremendous opportunity and how we utilize those, not only the The AI tool, but, um, how you approach working with buyers and how, and how this is probably going to run some people out of the market just because people fear people fear change. So I don't, I don't think that, um, you know, it would, I have written it this way.

Kevin: No, you know, I don't, I don't think it's necessarily the greatest thing, but I do know that it's going to be there to deal with. I mean, think about this. Um, I wasn't in the business at the time, but you know, at one point agents went from MLS books to then all the information being online. Right. Okay. That got some [00:25:00] people out of the business, but it also eventually became awesome.

Kevin: And we've, we've dealt with Zillow. We've dealt with, you know, other 

Tracy Hayes: Zillow is going to take over, take over. And now, 

Kevin: and now the, now the internet's, you know, ubiquitous and everyone has access to it. So what's really happened is, is real estates have real estate agents. Professionals have become, instead of the protectors of the information, they've become the.

Kevin: Interpreters of the information. And that's still going to be there. That's still going to be there. Even with even with AI, you got to figure out how you're going to incorporate AI. Now, I write all my own content. Personally, when I put content out there, I don't use it. I use it for some research. And I think agents can use it for for research.

Kevin: I think we just got to be aware of it. And you know, what are those? How can we use it now to our advantage? And then with the with the I think you just got to be ready. I mean, there's some things that you can do, you know, first of all, I mean, this is over overstated, but it's in case someone hasn't heard this understanding and recognizing your value proposition is, is huge.

Kevin: And it's not just, it's not just about, Hey, I'm going to help you find a house and Hey, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to really [00:26:00] care about you and all that stuff. You know, the buyers need particular certain things from their real estate agent. And it has to do with confidence. It has to do with, you know, Empathy and listening skills.

Kevin: It has to do with guidance and strength and courage and all these things that we need to bring to the table because what do they want from us? They really want to, when you get, when you strip it all away, I want, I want my financial situation to improve. I want my housing situation to improve. I want it to happen with lower stress and lower liability.

Kevin: I mean, these are the things at the end of the day that they need from right for the agents that are going to be able to articulate that. Super successful. Yeah. I know. I also say getting good at taking listings is a good idea. You'll still be in control. You'll still be able to work with buyers. But I, if I'm the agents I'm coaching, you tell me that, you know, I prefer working with buyers.

Kevin: That's fine. But you know, you also want to improve your listing book as well. 

Tracy Hayes: It was chatting. Yeah. With a, oh, well, Miss Dunia Taylor owns Remi Realty as well as Remi Graphics [00:27:00] this morning as she dropped off these new mugs this morning, um, that, uh, the listing agents need to be good. You can go out there and get listed, but the list, what's going to change the market is when you send a bunch of listing agents, which I think will be weeded out, who just immediately go to, I'm worried about me.

Tracy Hayes: Instead of doing what they've been doing all along and say, no, we need to get five or 6 percent because we need to, the incentive for the buyer's agent and do business as normal. Would you agree with that? And the, the strong listing agents need to, you know, you want to be strong at the, at the listing presentation, but that's part of being strong.

Tracy Hayes: And there's explaining to them why they need to have the buyer's incentive in there. And then to me, it would take a lot less stress off. Everyone. 

Kevin: Yeah, I think that's, that's right. I mean, I think you have to know your buyer proposition. You have to know your, your seller proposition and, and, and, and be able to articulate the value of not only what I bring to the table, but you know, the value of being able to [00:28:00] Why we need to do this.

Kevin: Yeah. And expand the buyer pool when you do that. And again, you take a lot of the stress off the, off the system. So, so I agree with that 100%. And I think there are going to be some agents, there would be a lot of agents that are really, really good at doing that. And we'll continue to flourish and have more opportunities to do so.

Tracy Hayes: All right. So you make a transition, you come up to Jacksonville. Am I correct? That's right. And, and, uh, joined Berkshire Hathaway. Yep. And Vera, tell us a little bit about where you started with them, which I, I, if I recall, was in Vera, but I'll let you take the story. 

Kevin: Sure. It was, it was actually serendipitous, uh, when, when I went, when I took the leadership job in South Florida.

Kevin: Uh, a great decision. I've always kind of gravitated towards helping other people be successful, probably even before I ought to have in some situations. I, I'd rather teach it than do it, but, um, so I. I committed to five years there, and I, and Because I knew at some point I'd probably be back in Jacksonville.

Kevin: I love it here. So, um, floated a resume and it ended up in hands of a good friend of [00:29:00] the family. And then it went to Davidson Realty, who gave it to Christy Budnick at Berkshire Hathaway. And Christy called me there, happened to be looking for a broker in their Ponte Vedra office. I happened to be, that's where I lived when I was in the Jacksonville area in high school.

Kevin: Uh, always kind of. Visualize myself working in real estate and being in Ponte Vedra. So when that call came, we both look at it as, as a kind of a serendipitous moment. I remember I, I, I was so loyal to the company down there. I wouldn't even take the phone call, our initial phone call on property. I left and drove across the bridge and sat in the parking lot of the Hutchinson Island Marriott to have my first conversation with Christie.

Kevin: It felt just kind of weird about doing it. But, um, But it all worked out in over a series of again, three or four interviews with her and with Linda Shearer, the founder of the company. Uh, we decided that it was a, it was a fit. And then I started working in the, in the Ponte Vedra office and man, what a powerhouse office that is filled with incredible people, not just great producers, but.

Kevin: Just incredible people. I [00:30:00] mean, and, and that was, I almost thought when I tell people this, I. I thought I got like a honeymoon reception, like, Oh, okay. We'll see how long this is going to last. You know, everyone's playing nicely together. It's a, it's a, it's a family environment. It's all good. And, uh, six months later I was like, okay, this wasn't, this is not honeymoon.

Kevin: This is, this is your people that really care about each other. They care about the community. They care about the company. And just had an absolute blast there. Uh, ran that office for four years. Um, got, got into some really good, situation, some really good negotiations, learned a lot from that group of people.

Tracy Hayes: Most people say, Oh, that's just a dream job for a sales manager. But really, if you're taking on an all star team, you know, if we want to call it that, um, you're going in there, obviously you don't want to lose any of those all stars. Sure. And You got, you know, people who are doing far more production than you ever have, you know, from, so they have high credibility, you know, what's your credibility coming in?

Tracy Hayes: You know, there's a lot of [00:31:00] things that go through your mind. Someone from the outside say, Oh yeah, I'd love to manage that office. Yeah. For how long? Because to stay out in front. Of the top people to add to me, uh, people change brokerages because the broker is no longer adding value to them. So Imagine these are things going through your mind as you're driving up 95 to come up here Uh, what are some of the some of the things that you learned, uh there and managing that?

Tracy Hayes: producing office. 

Kevin: You know, there was a little bit of an intimidation factor there, but I was pretty, I was pretty confident in my abilities of doing it. And, and so I'll tell you that the single best piece of advice that helped me in that job was given to me by one of my friends that moved from sales to management at Merrill Lynch in the Palm Beach area.

Kevin: And he said, Kevin, if you ever get in into a big time leadership job, ask a lot of questions before you try to do or change anything. And that stuck with me. So I didn't go in there Mm-Hmm. guns, guns blazing [00:32:00] because they would've eaten me alive. Right? And so I gun do it 

Tracy Hayes: my way, my way's better, right? 

Kevin: Hey, I, you know, I, I've got experience here and this is what we're gonna do, and oh my gosh, I can't believe you're doing it.

Kevin: That I, none of that. This is 

Tracy Hayes: how I did it down in Stuart . No, 

Kevin: those words may have come out of my mouth a couple times, but that was just in spite of myself. I couldn't help it, but. But my first, my first series of sales being at first, first I met with everybody, ask them questions, you know, tell me what you're trying to accomplish, where your goals, how long you've been in real estate, took them, took a lot of the top producers out to lunch.

Kevin: And then my sales meetings were more instead of me trying to give information, it was okay, tell me a little bit about why sellers work with you. Tell me all the things that, that, that we do here that are. And so my first four or five sales meetings, tell me why you guys work here. What are some of the competitive advantages of being in this place versus other places?

Kevin: And by the end of it, before I even tried to say anything. Some of the top producers that were considered really tough on managers were some of my, you know, closest relationships now, and they were very supportive in helping me gain that. 

Tracy Hayes: You felt they were part of the, part of the program. 

Kevin: And they were, and [00:33:00] it was true, and I learned a lot of stuff about the market and the market share, and it just, and great, great mentorship from Christy and Linda along the way, and, uh, and so I had, and there was also, and Cheryl, uh, was, was amazing because Cheryl, Dolan, who's still in the Ponte Vedra office, was a, was a realtor and steward while I was leading down there.

Kevin: So knew my reputation. And when, when Christy announced before I even came up here to the office that they were hiring me, Cheryl stood up and said, Oh my gosh, you can't believe, and that helped a lot too. She talked a little bit about, you know, how credible I was from what I was doing. A third party about a third party that was not planned at all.

Kevin: Christy swears. Um, it, it helped too, but, but that's, that. I think that's the biggest thing is listen, before you listen. Before you speak. 

Tracy Hayes: Yeah. No, that, that's, that's great advice. Uh, for, for any manager, uh, coming. You, you've, um, spent a lot of time studying John Maxwell. Yep. When, when did you start following him?

Kevin: Yeah, so I glossed over it a little bit. What, when I, when I [00:34:00] moved to Miami with Merrill Lynch, I worked for a guy named David McWilliams, who passed away a couple years ago, but just a solid, he was the one that I kind of looked at, said I wanna be. A leader one day because he was, he led the, the region of Florida for Merrill Lynch.

Kevin: And he just, you know, family man, just had it all together, confident. Had the right priorities, just really had it. And at a time in my life when I did not, I was all over the place. I didn't know which way it was up. Partied too much, you know, not getting enough sleep. Just health, health was terrible. And, uh, he put a John Maxwell book in my hand.

Kevin: It was Today Matters. And to this day, one of my favorite books. When, when I know someone graduating college or whatever, I put a, I put a Today Matters book in their hand. And, and by the way, not saying that that, for me on a dime. It did not. It was, it was a gradual process, but started reading John Maxwell.

Kevin: And then of course all the other, I mean, I've got my leadership library, my, my, my books at home. I got, I'm always, always reading something right now. It's a, a deep work by Cal Newport. I don't know if you've looked at any of [00:35:00] his stuff, but, um, but John Maxwell has been a tremendous influence in my life.

Kevin: And, and, uh, funny enough, um, When COVID happened, one of the, one of the meetings that we, one of our annual meetings that we normally do in person make a big deal out of, um, which we had to pivot again, a COVID work, but, uh, we were able to bring John Maxwell in and he did a virtual event for us, uh, for, uh, Florida Network Realty.

Kevin: And that was just a huge deal for me to be able to have him speak at a company after having been influenced by him for so many years. 

Tracy Hayes: How important, you know, I've read more books, obviously, since I've been out of school than I ever did. You know, it just, I found ways to get, you know, get through my education, get my degree without having to really read a whole bunch.

Tracy Hayes: But as an adult, um, uh, you know, we absorb it different ways. Um, as an adult, obviously, you know, I got hooked on John Muggs just like the way, you know, um, You know, I don't know whether he writes what [00:36:00] he thinks we just match and you want to turn the next page, you know, type of type of read, but Whether it's listening in your car or you know, I do like reading the hardcover book I don't I hate paperback.

Tracy Hayes: I want a hardcover How important as an agent in their growth? To it doesn't have to be John Maxwell. There's so many other great writers out there personal development is where I'm leading is, um, to, to be working on that all the time. You don't have to be full fledged as I think a lot of, uh, real read 10 pages a day or 10 minutes or whatever.

Tracy Hayes: A lot of them just recommend, and there's a lot of personal development books that are actually set up that way. You can read a chapter in 10, 15 minutes and that's the way they're designed. So you're reading that one chapter a day or the audio books, you know, you know, I'm getting a chapter in from my 20 minute ride into work, you know, And that's, they're designed that way specifically.

Tracy Hayes: So you're getting that one chapter a day, but they need to just constantly be working that and, and [00:37:00] just for their growth. So they can stand up in front of people. Uh, I think, you know, my conversational pieces are better because I'm reading and I'm able to, you know, listen to what other this guy's writing and then obviously bringing it in here and you say something, it triggers a thought.

Tracy Hayes: Thought that I read it and now we have a conversation just like they're standing in front of their customers and having a conversation sometimes it's not even about the house. Right. Yeah. Right. How important is that to build into your net, into your routine? 

Kevin: I mean, I feel like it's so important that I even wrote a book about it.

Kevin: That's almost complete. It's called one to grow on and, and, uh, and developed a community around it where people can come in and engage with content over a period of time, as you say, in short bites and kind of progress. Progress through it without question. And, and this is something I learned from John Maxwell many years ago is everyone kind of has a plan for their business, a plan for what they want to do, the goals list, but not a lot of people have a personal development plan and whether it's related to your craft or just what is it, what is it about your, your, your mindset?

Kevin: What is it about your personal, [00:38:00] your, your, your personal growth? What is it about your, your, your, uh, spirituality, your, your body and health, your, your, Your education, what are you doing to constantly evolve and again, get outside of your comfort zone? Because, because, you know, you put all of your, I I, I've only met a few people that put every ounce of themselves into real estate and they, they function well.

Kevin: A very small group of people. You kind of need to have a little bit more of a harmony around you. Mm-Hmm. . And I think personal development is a great way to. And, you know, you also look at some of the studies in terms of, you know, neuroscience and, and, and aging and age related, you know, dementia and that type of thing.

Kevin: And how important it is to keep that brain functioning and healthy and trying new things and experiencing new things. No question in my mind. And, and whether it's hard, hardback books, I mean, there's some great, in addition to yours. And I do listen to it, by the way, I've been listening to it. But there's some great podcasts out there with, I mean, I won't rattle them off, but there's, there's, there's other podcasts out there that, you know, Lewis Howes is one of them [00:39:00] that, uh, have you listened to Lewis Howes school of greatness?

Kevin: No, that's a, that's a, that's a great one. And he brings tons of guests in and they talk about all kinds of different topics. Yeah. But here's one thing that I've done in, in, in mine is One thing about some of those podcasts is they jump from topic to topic and I tend to like to go deeper. And so the way I structured my community is that we go deep into a topic and then you spend a month there and then you move on to the next one as opposed to, you know, one day we're going to talk about, you know, you know, mindset and the next day we're going to talk about, you know, Spirituality and then you kind of bounce around.

Kevin: So 

Tracy Hayes: yeah, you're just kind of hitting the highlights and not really digging in deep or making it a routine, whatever, you know, mindset. Yeah. Okay. What does, what does that mean? That's right. You know, and of course it means something different to everyone. Right. I mean, it's, it's, uh, and then what everyone's personal challenges are.

Tracy Hayes: to create that mindset and why they have that mindset. And one person can change their mindset pretty quickly. Another person needs a, you know, a little more hammering. Yeah. Uh, they're not as [00:40:00] malleable, right. Is that, um, all right. So you've, you created a momenters about, it's been about almost a year and a half now, um, you've taken your experience as an agent.

Tracy Hayes: In obviously leadership, you're deep in the John Maxwell, um, which, you know, John Maxwell isn't just talking to managers. He's, he's, he's talking to everyone to me when he, when he's talking. And, um, I think people, uh, you know, uh, he's seen as an expert in leadership, but, um, I just see, I don't know what, I can't, I can't think Correct term.

Tracy Hayes: Maybe you can, um, uh, just how he writes his books. I just find them just so fascinating because I guess I always say I should have been a psychology major, right? Why do people do what they do? And sometimes he can give you a different angle when you're reading and going, yeah, that's right. And I actually, when I have conversations with people, sometimes I can be, Hey, I don't know how to say this, but this is what I'm trying to get.

Tracy Hayes: And in that, [00:41:00] in, you have to understand, I think he's a, he's a, uh, Perfect example. We all put our pants on the same way. And, you know, uh, these people, yeah, just cause they're a manager doesn't mean, you know, they've got far more experience in you, whatever they've gotten there for different reasons and whatever, and creating that relationship with those around you, helping your leaders out.

Tracy Hayes: And of course, as being a leader, I think one of the greatest things is, you know, leaders create other leaders. That that's really the telltale sign of a great leader is who creates other leaders. Sure. Yeah, 

Kevin: I agree with you. And really, the reason I think it's applicable to everybody and he'll tell you this right in his books is self leadership is the most difficult thing.

Kevin: We're all leaders because we all need to lead. Yeah. Yeah. Some of us may be leaders in our communities, some of us in our family, some of us in organizations, but some of us, you know, aren't in the top seat in the organization, but you still can exhibit leadership qualities and help lift others up around you.

Kevin: And so that's why in my mind, I agree a hundred percent with you. It's not just for leaders that might be his, his expertise and it's kind of [00:42:00] his, his, his But it's, it's applicable to everybody. I 

Tracy Hayes: like influence and credibility. That's to me, that's one of the biggest things that I've gotten from him is influencing and credibility and influence.

Tracy Hayes: And you're not influencing people to do, well, hopefully not do bad things. You're influencing, you know, how you come in the office, uh, you know, obvious is this person that gave you an endorsement when you first came up to Ponte Vedra and, you know, uh, gave you credibility. There, uh, she obviously had some credibility.

Tracy Hayes: And so she endorses you, you automatically have credibility. Now we'll see what happens next week after you got here, but she gave you that, that dose. So you walked in the door a little bit about that. Um, I want to break down yet, cause I going on your website, um, you kind of break it down to three categories, life coach, sales, training, and leadership development.

Tracy Hayes: Um, let's just jump into the life coach. Tell us a little about Momentors and what you do in these three areas. Sure. Sure. 

Kevin: Well, mentors, the life coaching part is really designed to help the person that I was 25 years ago, 30 years ago. And by no means am I going to sit [00:43:00] here and claim to be perfect and have it all figured out because I'm a lifelong learner and that's something I do in perpetuity.

Kevin: But I, but I came, I, I've overcome some stuff, um, and, uh, a lot of it's self inflicted, and so, um, if, if someone out there is dealing with maybe some sort of, uh, issue with identifying purpose in life or struggling with trying to figure out, um, you know, why do I go to work in this job? Or, uh, maybe party, the big one is partying too much.

Kevin: I mean, I smoked a pack of cigarettes a day, all kinds of things like that that I see people struggle with and, and just trying to figure out a, you know, a path and, and a lot of it is just don't not having an understanding as to why I keep making the decisions I make. And I, and I've been, I just messed around for, you know, probably, more than most.

Kevin: I mean, it took me into my thirties to start trying to figure out, okay, uh, this isn't the direction I want to be going and I need to start making some changes. And so for me it was a couple of things that were really, uh, intentional there for part of [00:44:00] it was my faith and part of it was I just, I just picked one thing.

Kevin: I said, okay, I'm going to start my day off, right. And I'm going to start, I'm going to implement a morning, I call it kickstart now. Um, a lot of people call it a morning routine, but I'm going to get myself right in the morning and I'm going to, It's going to be prayer. It's going to be gratitude. It's going to be meditation.

Kevin: It's going to be exercise. I didn't just jump into this and spent and start doing it perfectly, but I started adding some of these things in and what I found was that it would, it made it very difficult for me to start making more tougher or, or, or, or making decisions on things that wouldn't serve me if I was starting my day off, right.

Kevin: If I knew I was getting up at five o'clock in the morning, I was going to start putting myself in a position to win the day. Then I wouldn't, I wasn't staying out as late at night. I was getting better sleep. I wasn't doing things that were going to hurt me and that type of thing. So that was a, that was a big one for me.

Kevin: Um, my faith was another big one. So when I, when I say life coaching and by the way, most of my leadership coaching and my sales coaching, End up having a component of this because everyone's got some mess, right? Everyone, [00:45:00] we've all got something across, I call it the Forbes categories. And I probably didn't make that up.

Kevin: I don't know where I came from it, but family, occupation, recreation, body and health, education, and spirituality. We've all got some, some, some stuff we got to work on. through. So even my sales and my leadership coaching, we all, we all get their sales coaching. I love that. I, I mean, um, I thought about navigating just straight to doing the leadership thing, but I do love sales and I love working with salespeople and realtors.

Kevin: And even so I've got some people outside of the real estate industry that I work with. And so that is really pulling apart. setting and some, again, some people, I just want to focus on business and we'll focus on business. Some people say, okay, I also have an exercise goal and a fitness goal and I also have a personal development goal.

Kevin: So we'll include those things. So, but it's like pulling apart their sales process where, where, where, What are you saying? How? How many contacts are you making? It's usually you find you find issues in a few different spots, right? It's either number of connections that you're making. And if it's not number of connections that you're making, it's what are you saying?

Kevin: And [00:46:00] if you're if you're making the connections and getting appointments and you're not getting the deals, then it's what is your presentation look like? And how are you interacting with you? So you start peeling You peel, peel layers back and try to figure out a solution to the problem. And I absolutely love that.

Kevin: And by the way, I lived that too. You know, when I was, when I was selling real estate, I remember talking to somebody once I was like almost bragging about how few listings I had. I was like, Oh, well I'm not going to take that one because it's overpriced. I'm not going to take that one because they're not willing to pay my fee.

Kevin: And the owner of the company overheard me once he heard me say that. And he goes, Hey Kevin, let me ask you a question. How many appointments are you going on? I was like, well, I don't know, maybe two last month. I was like, Well, there's always going to be someone not willing to pay your fee. There's always going to be someone not willing to price it right.

Kevin: But if you're only going on to a month, you're not going to find the ones that that are. So, so it's pulling apart the process, figuring that out. And then the leadership, the leadership part of it. I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's all encompassing. I mean, you got to figure out, you mentioned influence and credibility.

Kevin: And then what you're really doing as a [00:47:00] leader and as a salesperson, frankly, is you're building a level of trust and you're, and you're just putting deposits into this trust account and you're figuring out a way that you can, um, Establish good principles, values, what's important to the organization, what's important to your, to your people, and then make good decisions on how you're going to live that out.

Kevin: Because if you don't live it out, then you're going to lose the credibility. And then you lose the locker room, as I say, and, uh, and, and, you know, it's everything in between, you know, it's mindset, confidence, it's habits, it's doing more of the right, doing less of the wrong, you know, it's, it's across the board.

Tracy Hayes: Have you found. I know you have, you've had to. Um, I, cause I, I see, uh, uh, I think a lot of it, uh, because one of the things I talk with the agents, uh, who've had success, they reach a point where another John Maxwell phrase I use a lot of times, the lid. They reach a lid in their business and They're going out on they're going out on appointments A lot of them just [00:48:00] you know have a a good sphere of influence whatever it is So they're getting a number of referrals They're basically batting nearly 100 because they've been referred and they're they have a great presentation Uh, they're closing they're getting the deal and But they're, they're going along and I mean, you can make a decent living closing.

Tracy Hayes: Uh, I think one person I had recently, five, they said they felt five to 7 million. They're pretty much at 9 million. I, in my opinion, they're maxed out doing everything themselves with no transaction coordinators, no assistance, nothing. Um, but, uh, they're. They're really missing the, actually the front end piece.

Tracy Hayes: They're really good at all the backend piece, but they're just not, um, getting some appointments where they are actually pushing the envelope and getting a few nose, you know, they're two for two every month instead of being seven for 10 or six for 10 type of [00:49:00] thing. 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Tracy Hayes: Yeah. 

Kevin: Well, that's, I mean, I, I think that's, that's an issue.

Kevin: We, we used to tell people, if you have a sales rate of a hundred percent, you're probably not hitting, you're probably not hitting your, your business isn't as big enough as, as big as it ought to be. So I agree a hundred percent. Again, it's getting outside of the comfort zone and then getting to the point, you have to make a decision.

Kevin: Am I going to be a solopreneur and do this and add an assistant and add a transaction coordinator? Or do I want to build a, build a team? And then you start scaling your business from there because yes, there's only so much you can do as a, as a, as a solopreneur. 

Tracy Hayes: So in your coaching, imagine this, is this a common topic where they, no question.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Talk about some of the conversations. I mean, you don't have to mention names or anything, but maybe, maybe some success stories or some things, just some challenges that some of the clients that you've had and that you helped them break through this lid. Yeah. Yeah. 

Kevin: So the big, a big challenge is do I want to.

Kevin: Do I want to be a manager of other people? I think that's where a lot of, that's where a lot of it comes, comes to a head. It's do I, do [00:50:00] I want to spend my time just building this business and take it to a certain level? And then it's at X and I, and I don't care to take it to Y because I don't feel like I want the hassle.

Kevin: One person I've been talking to is we're having this exact conversation and he's nearing. Retirement and and and he by the way came up with a mentor in a situation designed exactly for this in that the mentor was only going to work for five more years and wanted to continue to earn on the book going into retirement.

Kevin: And that's exactly the way this happened. And now this gentleman is getting to the point of where he's getting ready to retire and doesn't want to do that. And to me, that's a big, that's a big miss. And I'm trying to help him work through, and he's also, he's a kind of a perfection personality. So he likes to have his, his total control.

Kevin: He likes to have the control and he's kind of dabbled around with With people in the past and hadn't, hadn't really gone so well. So it's trying to help help him kind of visualize what life might be into the retirement years [00:51:00] where, where he can nurture and train somebody up to then. not have to be as engaged as he is right now.

Kevin: So we can go travel some more and do, do some of those types of things, right? I mean, for someone that is interested, that really wants to build a team working with them, it's easy because it's just a matter of figuring out, okay, what are you trying to do? What are you? the best at and what do you love doing and what, what do you want to do?

Kevin: What one or two or three things, maybe max, do you want to spend your time doing? And now we can just, we can organize the, we can organize the rest of it around you. And yes, you're going to, you're going to now have to allocate a period of time to people management, but this is what that looks like. And if you're, if you're gunning it, wanting to do that, then that's, that's an easier conversation than helping someone getting back to the psychology comment.

Kevin: You may try to get out of their own way to be able to not, I mean, what's the alternative? You just walk away one day and, 

Tracy Hayes: or you burn out, 

Kevin: you either burn out or you walk away one day and you're not, and now all that work that you've done over a period of In this case, 30 years, it's [00:52:00] not, you're not going to monetize it because not many people are just going to buy a book that hasn't been where you, that person hasn't been brought in and cultivated because there's no guarantees as to what that's going to happen.

Kevin: So you need to start five years in advance. I tell people it's so hard for some five years in advance to start making those introductions and start, start creating that. that, uh, that stickiness with them and your database so that you can then dial it back a little bit. You know, financial services, they have this figured out.

Kevin: The financial advisors, they do this beautifully. It's for some reason, it's, it's, it's been tougher in real estate to kind of get people to buy into that model. 

Tracy Hayes: What do you, how does the financial services do it? Well, I agree with you. First of all, 

Kevin: financial services, there's, they've got the residual thing worked out, right?

Kevin: So now I create a database, a book of business and it's generating, it's generating revenue. So I can, I can bring people, I can bring people in to help work the book. A lot of the heavy lifting has already been done. So we figure out our splits. I'm still, [00:53:00] I'm still might be engaged, but I'm engaged at a very different level.

Kevin: And now I'm going to have the meetings. I'm going to do the new account creation, maybe just a million dollars plus, or 10 million, depending on the financial advisor. And I'm, and I'm developing a team that is helping maintain these client relationships, but the engine is running, man. And those residuals are coming in.

Tracy Hayes: How so I was at a mastermind over at landmark, um, a couple of weeks ago, and it was about teams, um, in, you know, that's a very broad term. I mean, there's, there's people that. You know, have teams of agents. I think that's kind of like what every agent that enters the business, they see that, um, because it's out there front, but there's other agents in town who really just have a support staff.

Tracy Hayes: They, they're that point person. They're the ones going out and doing the face to face, the things that they love to do and, you know, Negotiate and that sort of thing. But all a lot of their, their marketing, a lot of, you know, the, the [00:54:00] paperwork that has to be done, all the computer work is all being done by other support people.

Tracy Hayes: Sure. Um, in, uh, and I, I think there's some sort of mix in between. Some people have just the Two or three agents working. There's other teams that have 20, 30 people. Uh, you know, uh, there were, but that's very difficult. You that, you know, the, the large team and people are turning and burning, coming in and out of that.

Tracy Hayes: Uh, you've got to have that ability to the thick skin, I guess, to, um, you know, you're constantly trying to hire in and obviously retain, but there's always someone spilling over. And takes a little piece of your heart with them every time they, they roll out, um, Kind of like 

Kevin: a managing broker. 

Tracy Hayes: Yeah. It's the same 

Kevin: concept.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Hire, develop, and every once in a while someone breaks your heart. 

Tracy Hayes: Um, in, in working with some of these people who have hit this lid, um, I think, like you said, they got to get out of their own way. That's that's this gentleman you were just talking about. I'm thinking, okay, so you'd rather say, I'm [00:55:00] not doing any more business as of this date and make no more money because those same people that you worked with for years that are still buying and selling houses, they're just going to call someone else and you're not going to get a piece of it.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Well, why would you do that? 

Kevin: It's exactly right. And it's, it seems, it seems so simple, but at the same time, The work and the effort involved in that. It's easier. I mean, we have like the, what is it? The, the pain of discipline or the pain of regret, right? Mm-Hmm , the discipline and the intention that it would take for him to do what I'm suggesting and he'll do it.

Kevin: I mean, , we're, we're getting there, right? But the pain and the discipline of the discipline that, and the intention that it will take you in order for him to set this up over the next five years is different than what he's been doing over the past. 30. And so it's so easy to just get swept back up into the next deal.

Kevin: And I got this listing appointment and I'm not just, I'm just going to push that off. And so it's, it's, it's cracking that code. And to your point on teams and individuals, that's all personal preference. I mean, I know people that are super successful as individuals. What I do like about teams is if you [00:56:00] structure your team properly, then you can disengage.

Kevin: And I think strategic disengagement, there was a book years ago, um, uh, He wrote the corporate athlete, um, Jim Lear and I think Tony Schwartz also wrote a book called the power of full engagement and in it he spends a lot of time talking about strategic disengagement and I, I'm a big fan of that and R and R and that type of thing.

Kevin: Now, there's a difference. Strategic disengagement means you're basically, uh, identifying periods of time when you're not going to be working versus loafing, which is like I'm getting distracted and I'm going over here and messing around on my, on my phone for a few hours. Very, very different. That's bad.

Kevin: Strategic disengagement is good. Right. And if you set your team up properly, or even a solopreneur that has someone that can really cover your business, I, I, I'm a, I'm a big proponent of, of, you know, not being the 24 hour agent. I know that that irritates people, especially the 24 hour doesn't like hearing that.

Kevin: Okay. I, you know, unless I, I've, like I mentioned, there are two people that I've coached over the years that they are, [00:57:00] it's such an anomaly that they thrive 100 percent on the business. And when I tried to coach harmony into them, they eventually told me, look back off. This is what we do. This is what we love.

Kevin: No kids, no pets. This is, this is our life. And we, and when we're not doing it, we're not happy. Okay. Everyone's, everyone's different, right? And so, and so that's, and in my coaching practice, that's what it's, it's just like when I went to work in Ponte Vedra, it's I ask a whole bunch of questions before I try to say anything.

Kevin: It's really trying to uncover someone and what they're trying to accomplish. And sometimes it's, it's okay. You've told me a lot of things. I understand what your end goal is. I don't think you're making the calls that are going to get you there. And then then we work through that, but sometimes it's, you know, yeah, I could, I could, I could hire a team tomorrow and blow it up, but I just don't want to do that.

Kevin: I want to, I want to, I want to be the sole 

Tracy Hayes: do you find a lot of, uh, the clients you help them open their eyes to what, What is out there in real estate because everyone does, you know, every broker is different. Every agent does their business slightly different. That's the beautiful thing about it. You can be [00:58:00] you, right?

Tracy Hayes: You can be authentic to, you know, the, the, you know, if you're a social media wonder, you can go do that and figure out a way to make your, make your business work. But I think a lot of agents, um, you know, we talked a lot of the top agents, you know, expanding their horizons, whether, yeah, whether they're doing, um, um, how they structure their team.

Tracy Hayes: Are you, or do you have some investment property yourself? Do you understand how there's so many real estate is such a broad thing, but there's so many that are just focused on the, Hey, the single family home, they, they miss a lot of the opportunity. And, uh, I would assume a lot of them come to you and like, Oh yeah, I'm, I've hit this lid.

Tracy Hayes: I don't know what to do. They don't, they don't realize. There's six ways to Sunday to, to, to create, to get you through that lid, which one works for you. And a lot of them just didn't even know these opportunities were out there. That's right. Yeah. 

Kevin: Yeah. And it is trying to help them open their minds to it.

Kevin: I, and I will say this, your, your comment. Yes. There's a lot of different ways to build a tremendous real estate [00:59:00] business and you can be yourself. You can be authentic. And at the same time, yeah. It's, it's, it's hard work and it's, and it's a lot of it that you might need to get outside of your comfort zone a little bit.

Kevin: There are agents that over time, all their business comes from being on the tennis court or the golf course, or, you know, I've known people that work the bars and they go hang out at bars in the, I don't necessarily recommend that, but that's what they do. There's a lot of different ways to build a real estate business.

Kevin: But that's not generally how it's built from the beginning. And, and I think the best agents that even when they do fall into those rhythms that, man, I get a bunch of business coming from my, my tennis group is great, but it's always good. It's always a good idea to have multiple sources of income, other sources of clients, whether it's open houses or expires or for sale by owners or social media or whatever your other sources there.

Kevin: And then to your point, get into, uh, developing, um, levels of income, what do you call it? Wake up money or, or money that's coming when you're not even working. And again, financial services has figured that out in real estate. [01:00:00] You gotta, there's not a lot of res, there's some models that have some residual type income from recruiting, but, um, it's more of a purchasing and owning and neither renting short term rentals, that type of thing.

Kevin: And understanding what market you're in and what your time horizon is on that. And if that makes sense for you as well to, uh, develop a larger portfolio. Sure. 

Tracy Hayes: So someone listening right now, um, you know, I'm going back and asking different questions, but, um, I want to, I always like to put the rubber to the road.

Tracy Hayes: So to speak, uh, we'd like to say everyone needs your services. Um, you're coaching, you're mentoring. I think, I think everyone at different times, there's some great people that have always had a coach. They still have a coach. Um, you know, how many times they talk to every, every week, but. Let's get related at persons out there.

Tracy Hayes: We just say everyone needs a coach to me. They just kind of blow that off. They're like, well, all these other people don't have coaches and they're doing okay. So I'll just continue not having a coach, but what [01:01:00] are some, give us some, I don't know if you want to call it just some, uh, success stories, some people, uh, you know, where they were at in their business.

Tracy Hayes: You know, uh, I mentioned Angie Bell yesterday who coaches well, she knew from corporate America going into real estate years ago She hired a coach right away to advance her career Give us some some stories of that. Hopefully we'll resonate with some of the listeners that might be listening Oh, you know, maybe here here's where you're at and maybe you had a really, you know Obviously you've had a client who was there they can relate to each other and then how you turned, obviously, hopefully improve their business.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Improve their life. Sure. Yeah. 

Kevin: Well, there's, there's, there's quite a few. Yeah. And, um, uh, I, I think the, the main thing I would say is that the conversation is different when you're mentoring someone that's trying to go from zero to 5 million in, in volume to five to 15 million in volume to 15 to 20 to 50 to 60.

Kevin: And I've. coach to mentor people in all of these, all of these realms, [01:02:00] the conversation evolves. It's not the same set of skills. It's not the same questions to ask. It's not the same things to, it's not the same habits. And so, so, um, uh, probably the, I mean the success story that comes to mind, I'll, let me pick on, um, was, uh, someone that was interviewed as a testimonial for me recently.

Kevin: And, And, uh, credited some of my, uh, coaching from taking her from 6 million in volume to 14 million in volume. And that had to do with, um, helping her identify that, she wasn't properly working her sphere of influence properly. And she knew a whole lot of people and just with some little tiny tweaks. It wasn't anything major that I did, but just having to recognize that and then getting a little bit more intentional and spending more time there cultivating that.

Kevin: And then maybe asking some more pointed questions about, Hey, what are your plans with your real estate? Or, Hey, tell me a little bit about, you know, what's happening in your life. And then, and then, Following up later about some of those little [01:03:00] questions ended up having a major influence on her, on her business.

Kevin: And so it's just, it's just trying to, you know, and not everybody wants to do that, by the way. Some people, you know, have different levels of success that they aim to achieve. And I've worked with some people that say, I'm doing 10 million a year right now. My goal is to maintain that level of success, but I want to dial it back a little bit on how many hours I spend doing this.

Kevin: And can you help me? Can you help me get there? So it's, it's, it's everything. And it's everything in between. It's just helping, helping them figure out, okay, what am I going to do? In order to get where I want to go, what am I going to do more of, and what am I going to do less of? What am I going to delegate?

Kevin: What am I going to stop doing? And, and, 

Tracy Hayes: that's how we get there. Would you, would you agree, um, a lot, I would imagine a good portion of your, your clients have gone through a frustration level? For a period of time before they make the jump to say You know what? Someone's been telling me for the last year.

Tracy Hayes: I should get a coach. All right I'll try a coach [01:04:00] versus being proactive Knowing that hey i'm going to be successful and I know when I reach this level I'm not going to be able to do it all on my own. How am I going? What's going to be my you know? being out in front of it. I mean, what kind of, do you find them a lot?

Tracy Hayes: Probably have frustrated for a couple of years where they could have doubled their production. I imagine this lady probably doubled her, it was over a year or two that she doubled her production. Um, cause she was working on it. If she had started that earlier, she would have just ramped right up. Right.

Tracy Hayes: In theory. Yeah. 

Kevin: I think it's 50 50. If I were to look at my practice, I've got some people that are just gung ho and I know I need a coach and I want you to be that person. And then some of them, yeah, it's your, to your point, it's yeah, I've, I've, my business is tanked and now I'd like to help. I'd like someone to help me recover it.

Kevin: And so there's been a pain point there. I think it's about half and half. Yeah. Um, and I, you know, I think you, would you, Would you, would you prefer everyone to be proactive? Yes. But if I look at [01:05:00] my, if I look at my situation and my history, shoot, it was, it, I had to hit rock bottom. And again, it's not something I'm proud of, but it was just part of my story.

Kevin: And then when I look back on the, when I look back on my entire career, It's like, geez, you know, as long as you're taking some lessons from it and figuring it out and applying it as you move forward, then it's okay. And we just got to give ourselves a little bit of grace about when we made the decision.

Kevin: If we could have made it more proactively, yeah, that may have been better, but maybe I needed to go through that in order to be the person I am today. And so it's just everybody's. It's just a different scenario for everybody. 

Tracy Hayes: So let's just kind of quickly tip through the some of the buckets that you talked about there to that.

Tracy Hayes: Are you working with any, you know, agents that are in maybe that zero to two years having renewed, you know, done their first renewal. Um, what, what are some of the, some of the challenges that they're having and what are some of the things you're helping them work through? 

Kevin: Yeah. Zero to two. Um, generally speaking, it's a level of perfection personality, even if they're not a perfection personality, it's a, I want to know [01:06:00] everything before I do anything.

Kevin: And, And it's just not the way it works. And I'd love to say that we're going to be absolute masters of our craft before we go out and get front and face to face with buyers and sellers. And it's just not, it's just not the case. And so it's trying to help them get out of the way. And, and, and this was, this was a big deal for me too, because when I was leaving Merrill Lynch, I was there for a while, I was kind of a go to person for some things when I got into real estate.

Kevin: Man, I wanted to, I was the same thing. I wanted to know everything before I did anything. And, and that's why I went to all the classes and that's why I went and I learned so much stuff. And, and, and guess what? I made no money. And then, and then at my first closing, I remember sitting there and thinking, Oh, I'm feeling kind of good about myself.

Kevin: I'm a little, maybe a little cocky and, and everyone, all the, all of a sudden I feel all the heads turned towards me. And the attorney was asking me where the escrow check was. And I was like, well, back in the day, we had to request an escrow check in advance, take it to closing. And well, I'd forgotten to do that.

Kevin: Did I learn that in class? Heck yes, I did. When did I really learn the lesson? When I was sitting [01:07:00] at that table and I was embarrassed and, and, and, and I was sweating and, and, It never happened again, but that's where my point is. That's where the lessons are learned is on the field. It's when someone asks you a question, you don't know the answer to, well, maybe you heard a bunch of different ways to handle that in class, but now that I'm face to face with somebody and it's, it's, it's going on.

Kevin: So it's helping someone understand that you're not going to be ready to do your first open house, but you got to go do your first open house. You can go watch somebody once or twice, maybe have a conversation, but don't overdo it with that. Get out there and do it. Screw up, fall on your face, say something wrong.

Kevin: Don't worry about saying you don't know because I'd rather you say that than try to make something up and just let's build the muscle and then understand that we're working through fears, man. We're working through fear of failure. We're working through fear of change. We're working through fear of being judged and all those things are coming up for the zero to two agent.

Kevin: And so it's, it's, it's action to get the confidence and it's also study the market. Have a good answer to how's the market if you're if someone asks you how's the market and you're saying well It's a little slow or it's [01:08:00] fantastic or it's great or whatever. That's not telling anybody anything You really need to dive deep and have something where you can where you can have a reasonable conversation That's going to give them something to value.

Kevin: Give us 

Tracy Hayes: an example of that Yeah, that's cuz I got that that I can guarantee everyone listening does exactly that in passing someone asking that question How's the market because they just want to kind of break the ice of a conversation. How do you sing it? 

Kevin: Some are better than others. Yeah. And, and, and so what I encourage people to do is every month.

Kevin: spend an hour and study the market. And I think there's, there's some tools out there that you can do it with now. I know you can do it through the NIFAR statistics page. And if you're, if you're doing 90 percent of your business in sawgrass country club, then really know, really know that market. Someone says to me, Hey Kevin, how's the market?

Kevin: I'm saying, well, what, What market are you interested in? Which, which portion of the market? What do you mean? Well, there's a condominium market. There's a residential market. Are you interested in your community? So I'm going to ask first a followup question before I dive into my talking points. And they may say, you know, no, just, just the general market say, okay, [01:09:00] well, it's interesting right now.

Kevin: It's, there's opportunities out there. You wouldn't believe right now, the inventory supply of homes is six months and geez, just a few years ago, it was, and that was really, really hot. So we're starting to see things come back into balance a little bit more. Raise her a little bit. You see where I'm going?

Kevin: I need to go through the whole thing, but now I'm giving them something that's of value. That's also setting me apart, setting me apart as someone that. That's an expert and I've answered the question that that that so many agents get wrong And I mean I for and and by the way, I love some of the old school books on real estate But one but I won't even name the name But they used to say well just say that the real estate market is exciting because that's always true.

Kevin: That's like But that's not telling anybody anything so ask a clarifying question now if they say well Tell me a little bit about the condo market in Sawgrass Country Club, and I don't know the answer say I got something I'll send you on that. And, and, and then you have a reason to follow up and give us 

Tracy Hayes: a very specific and then you become a resource.

Kevin: You become a resource. [01:10:00] You fought. And now I have a reason to follow up with you. I'm probably going to follow up with you anyway, if you're asking that question, this is my, it's the number one, most often asked question to real estate agents. And it's just, we, we missed the boat and another, I'll give you the number two, by the way, even though you didn't, why, why do you sell real estate?

Kevin: I mean, that's a really, really important question to answer. Even if you don't get asked as often, it's a super important question. If a buyer or seller ever asked you, in fact, I encourage realtors to say, to tell you, to tell them anyway, as part of the connection process, let me tell you a little bit about why I do this and we're going to dive into that question a little bit more at the landmark event too.

Kevin: And yeah, really get into the sales process that I've developed over the years and where to fit that, that in, because things are, things are changing in real estate and, and, um, And this isn't, you know, I'm not a clickbait guy. This is, I'm not, I'm not a hot take guy. There's some, there's some in my industry that are saying that, you know, this is almost business as usual.

Kevin: That's wrong. It's not business as usual. And there are some are saying that this is an existential threat. That's wrong too. It's just, I got to [01:11:00] recognize what's happening and then figure out my strategy. That's going to carry me forward over the next five, six, seven, seven years. But that was a long answer.

Kevin: Zero to two. Get, get the habits going, take the action built. So when I say study the market that builds confidence, that's the biggest separator I think between someone that's going to have a mediocre average or not a career in real estate to someone that really gets it and gets it going is confidence.

Kevin: And if I'm studying the markets like an actor who has stage fright, if I know my lines better than when I'm sitting in front of a buyer or seller, Then you start, then you start to, then you almost start to carry yourself a little bit differently. Then you start to, then you start to carry yourself when you're prospecting differently.

Kevin: I used to tell people when you get that first train, when you get that first listing, when you get that first buyer, when you get that first closing, a lot of times people in the zero to two, Then they put all their energy and effort over here and they, and they shepherd, they want to shepherd that through and nurture that baby.

Kevin: Like, uh, like Tommy boy with his precious little pet crushes his pet. If you don't know Tommy boy, you got to see that movie. [01:12:00] And they spend all their time here. And my advice is to spend some time there, but there's no better time for you. I, my company is called Momentors. You have momentum now to start making those other prospecting calls and you got to keep that thing going because if you spend all your time watching this one, Close then guess what now I got to start it all over again Right and guess what realtors are good at this.

Kevin: We have the we have the up and down roller coaster of of income And that's not where you want to be. You want to be on this trajectory with little ups and downs along the way It's not perfect, but you don't want to be on this man. I've been on this and it's not it's not a fun roller coaster 

Tracy Hayes: when you um Start with somebody Do you generally, or, or in your conversation, hey, you know, you, you ask him to make a commitment for, you know, this should be a 12 month, obviously you're not going to make changes.

Tracy Hayes: You know you something may change in 30 days Maybe because you come up with some brilliant, but a typical coaching takes time And obviously like I said you tuning in how often you're [01:13:00] meeting and you're asking these questions and digging into your their business It could be I don't know a couple months before you actually have some sort of like, okay, you know I've been listening to you for the last six weeks This is some ideas I have you know, or whatever however you approach that Do you have an end game?

Tracy Hayes: You in mind. In other words, you know, saying, Hey, you need to make a commitment for six months or this needs to be committed for 12 months based on what you're telling me you want to get out of. My coaching. 

Kevin: So yes, there are the end game in mind is what they tell me the end game in mind is. And so my contracts are for 12 months.

Kevin: I do have a six month option. It just costs more on a monthly basis. If someone's making a lower commitment, then it's just going to be a little bit more expensive. Um, but the end game is my, they tell me three professional goals and then they tell me three personal goals and then we talk it through and they say, well, look, I want you to focus in on my professional goals with me.

Kevin: I don't really, I'm going to work on the personal stuff, but I still, I want you I still get it because I want to ask about it. And then our goal is [01:14:00] to get them working at the level that is going to be consistent with getting them at whatever number they want to get, get to, getting them, getting them whatever hurdles or challenges we need to clear through, whether it's a habit thing or a mindset thing or a mission thing, whatever it is, we'll, we'll find it.

Kevin: And then we start to work through it. So some clients I have, They just, they like, look, I just want you have real estate experience. I know you've been down this path. I just want you to tell me what I need to do. What did you do? What are some things I can do and give me some characteristics of what a great open house looks like or what a great expired call looks like.

Kevin: Let's just talk some more direct. And that's, that's more of what I would call it like a training relationship. It's still coaching because there's an accountability piece, but it's, it's more direct. And then some people come to me, it's like, I don't know what's wrong. And here's what I hear so often. I know what I need to be doing.

Kevin: But I'm not doing it. I call that the momentum. Well, that was my, that 

Tracy Hayes: was my question. What do you say? Those people that say, I don't need a coach because they're just going to tell me what I already know. 

Kevin: [01:15:00] Well, I know what it's, if they, if they, if they know what to do and are doing it, then the question becomes, are they achieving it at that level?

Kevin: Are they approaching burnout? Is there something I can help them to get more harmony in life if they know what to do and they're doing it and they're checking all their boxes across all the, those Forbes categories that I mentioned, then maybe they don't need a coach. But there's so few people that are actually operating at that level.

Kevin: The, a lot of the times it's, I know what I need to do. I hear this so often. I'm just not. doing it and they hire me to try to bridge that gap. Okay, so what is that? We, we do a lot of work with tying people back to their, their why their mission. We try to fit, we try to figure out what the block is and a lot of times it's usually a couple things.

Kevin: It may be fear. and sometimes we have to, we have to pull back fear and really dive into that and understand what is the source of fear and what's the worst that can happen. And here let me share some stories about how I overcame some fears. Sometimes it's time and energy management. Sometimes they're just not mad.

Kevin: They're not prioritizing their [01:16:00] stuff right. And, and, and then another one is just a big one is distraction. I mean, we are addicted to distraction. I think Robin Sharma said that we were addicted to distraction. We, we have a love affair with our devices and social media. I mean, the dopamine hit the statistics, the statistics that I've read are, I mean, two and a half hours a day on social media.

Kevin: a two and a half hours a day. Now, some of us use it for business, so we need to be there. But two and a half hours a day is an awful lot, even for someone that's that's doing part of their business there. I mean, that's a month out of the year that we're and and it's not necessarily going there to do business and, you know, maybe comment on some things of it, but it's scrolling through and, you know, down this endless rabbit hole of looking at stuff.

Kevin: So it's trying to identify What do we need to do less of in order that we can build more things in here that are going to move you towards what you're What I think 

Tracy Hayes: a lot of people, um, I knew I, I, I saw this ad, John Maxwell, influence, credibility. I'm like, yeah, that's what a [01:17:00] podcast can do for me. I didn't know how to go though.

Tracy Hayes: From a podcast What, where I was at point a to B having a full fledged podcast, which is taking time and I've gotten better and better, you know, every episodes, you know, whatever. But I, I had to, I hired a coach who. That's what he was doing. He, you know, now he has close to a thousand episodes on his program, but he coaches other people to make the connections.

Tracy Hayes: And sometimes you need to get someone who has connections to help you with your connections. Cause it's like, Hey, I wanted to, I'm here. I want to double my production or whatever it is. I want to get my, get my production a certain level, but I don't know. What does it actually take? to do that. Well, you need to farm a neighbor, whatever it is, those tips.

Tracy Hayes: And we don't, and sometimes we don't know those first couple of steps. And that's why we never take the step because we don't actually know what the first step is because we're looking at the 10th step, which is where we want to be. And we need a coach to help us get those first few steps going 

Kevin: very well, very well said.

Kevin: And we may be just a [01:18:00] sense of overwhelm and this is where I want to go. And I don't know how to get there. And so how do we chunk this down so we can push them 

Tracy Hayes: out of the nest? That's right. 

Kevin: And part of it is chunking it down and execute, but part of it is, okay, you may not feel like you're ready. Go do it.

Kevin: And tell me, tell me how it went. Right. We'll, we'll, we'll do an autopsy afterwards. And by the way, you're going to be better for it, even if it doesn't go the way you wanted it to go, because you know, we were talking, I couldn't remember the name of the book, but we were talking about, um, uh, John Maxwell stuff before the show.

Kevin: And, uh, sometimes you win, sometimes you learn is the title of one of his books. And that's a, that's a fantastic book for trying to get past, trying to get out of our way with the fear of. Failure being judged or fear? Fear of failure. Because for those of us that are on the field making plays, you know, you pay too much attention to what people are saying about it or what whatnot.

Kevin: What does it matter? I mean, you're on the field making plays. Mm-Hmm. . The plays don't always go the way you want 'em to, but you get up, you dust yourself off, and you go, you go make another play. And you maybe do it a little differently next time. 

Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Yep. A hundred percent. Um, Kevin, anything you want to add?[01:19:00] 

Kevin: Well, congratulations, you've been doing those for a while and over 200 shows and, and, uh, that's, that's, that's amazing. And so I really appreciate you having me on here and what you're doing for the real estate. Real estate community. I appreciate that. And, uh, you know, uh, I can be found at momentors, LLC.

Kevin: com. I got a lot of resources there. Even if someone isn't looking to engage a coach, I have a blog there. I write a ton of content and there's some other resources there for realtor. You have a 

Tracy Hayes: great LinkedIn yet. Momentors, LLC. com. Obviously it'll be in the show notes. If you're listening to the audio version, it'll, it'll be in there if you want.

Tracy Hayes: You can't find them, but you just go Kevin Wagemann on LinkedIn. You're right there. There 

Kevin: aren't too many. There actually is one more Kevin Wagemann who, uh, Has a criminal record somewhere. That's not me. So if it doesn't look like me, Oh, that wasn't the, the 

Tracy Hayes: tough times you were having in the twenties. I'm not 

Kevin: saying I don't have anything on there, but there's someone that is a little bit more than me.

Tracy Hayes: I appreciate you. And this was a great show. And we could talk for hours, but the 19th of July, this is 2024. Cause we [01:20:00] know this stuff will be out there forever. Um, you'll be at landmark and, uh, talk more about some of the value you can bring to the 

Kevin: Thank you, July 19th and looking forward to seeing everybody there and Tom Reber with Planet Home is going to be there and my friend Dan Stewart with Gray Frog Media will be there as well.

Tracy Hayes: Excellent. Thank you. 

Kevin: Thank you.