Cyndee Haydon: All Things Florida Home Insurance

REE#194
===

Tracy Hayes: [00:00:00] Hey, welcome back to real estate excellence podcast today. I have a returning guest from episode 168 She's an author her and her husband are active and successful real estate team in the greater tampa bay area President of the pinellas county board in 2018 She is part of the national association realtor Leadership Academy, international speaker.

Tracy Hayes: And ultimately what this podcast will be about is her insight from her position as chair of the National Association of Realtors Insurance Committee. Insurance has become a big factor in the home buying process. What's going on? What can we do? What new legislation is being worked on to lower the cost of insurance?

Tracy Hayes: So let's welcome back one of my favorite guests, and she is full of knowledge and insight, Cindy Hayden to the show, Cindy, welcome. 

Cyndee Haydon: Thank you, Tracy. It's a, it's a pleasure to be here. You do such an amazing job. So thank you for what you do for our industry and helping people get past the soundbites and really get, dig into the meat of what's happening and what [00:01:00] they need to know.

Tracy Hayes: Right. I appreciate that. And to bring on the, you know, the, the honor to bring on someone like yourself, who, who is there in the action and you're not, you're not a soundbite off to the side, getting. Cooler talk you're actually talking to people who are actually moving and grooving which we'll talk about here whether it's in Tallahassee or At Florida Realtors or at at the National Association, so I appreciate you coming on and spending time with us this morning I know you're campaigning for Secretary for Florida Realtor in Orlando and just want to I know you've been traveling around you were down in Miami I think last month or just a few weeks ago Yep and want to know what are you hearing from the agents?

Tracy Hayes: Um, you know, that's out there and maybe some new insights that, that hopefully you're going to take, uh, into the board, the board next year. 

Cyndee Haydon: So, uh, we're definitely hearing the impact that the cost of insurance is having. We had meetings in the panhandle and a [00:02:00] gentleman shared with me that his homeowners insurance, personal homeowners had gone from, you know, to over 4, 002 years.

Cyndee Haydon: And I know you and I are going to talk about some of the reasons why. And are we seeing a, a shift or a trend back to stable to lower, um, in South Florida, a lot of the realtors there talked about the impact of commercial and how it works differently. And so when these insurance costs rise, uh, what the impact is, I actually had the opportunity yesterday to hear from some experts in the commercial industry.

Cyndee Haydon: line talking about different creative ways to cover commercial buildings. Um, almost like a health insurance where if you don't use it, they, they repay some of the rates back to buy it again. Right? So there's a lot of things people are thinking creatively, but there's no doubt that the challenge right now in affordability, a huge, huge piece in the one country, Unpredictable piece is what will the insurance be the next year or the [00:03:00] next year?

Cyndee Haydon: Right? And so that's what we're helping people sort of feel through as I work with buyers. That's definitely something they're really really focused on 

Tracy Hayes: I mean, from the mortgage side, I mean, it could be qualification, it could be someone's budget, you know, whether or not, you know, all of a sudden we come back and getting insurance right at the beginning of the process is oftentimes important on a particular house.

Tracy Hayes: They're looking at, um, you're, you're mixing and mingles also with our national association. as chair of the insurance committee, but I just wanted to, you know, kind of kick off cause I'm sure it's a question you're asked about every day. So we might as well hit everybody in the state here. We're all of our listeners.

Tracy Hayes: What is your, what are you hearing out there from the, from some of the top agents of the proposed settlement and how they're going to attack it? And just, I mean, what's your personal opinion on it? 

Cyndee Haydon: You know, um, first of all, I think that the assumptions that were made in the court case, and I'm just speaking for myself, Cindy [00:04:00] Hayden, a realtor in Tampa Bay, not for any organization, but I feel the assumptions that were made.

Cyndee Haydon: There was a lot of myths. Put out there in the news, in the, in the conversations, there've been some people like budge Husky that have done a great job at really dispelling, you know, truth and fact from myth. Um, interestingly enough, I think that the biggest one is around somehow. Commissions drive what the realtors do for their clients.

Cyndee Haydon: And we've seen data out of bright MLS this week. And I have a friend that has stellar MLS for Hillsborough and Tampa data that shows the exact same thing, right? That, that the buyer did designates to us, what they want to look at and buy that the, the commission often is higher on a lower price property than a high price property, which means we would get paid less, not more.

Cyndee Haydon: So again, we're doing the right thing. Based on what the client wants. And then they had a focus group that said, you know, could you do this alone? Would you do this alone? 90 percent said it would be really, really [00:05:00] hard. And they appreciated all the invisible things that go on that people don't realize when they only buy a house every 12 to 13 years.

Cyndee Haydon: I do think, I do think that the positive side of the settlement for me and for other people is that the market we came out of was moving so quickly, you know, this from the mortgage side that we were sort of like, we saw a house, I'm writing the offer in the car on the side of my car, you know, getting it in, getting in the line.

Cyndee Haydon: And I noticed, I just stepped back for myself, you know, there's 114 things. Terms in the contracts that I helped negotiate for our clients. And we were operating so fast. I realized I had not been properly explaining to them the why, why would we do this? And how am I using my knowledge and experience to do that?

Cyndee Haydon: And so what it's really doing by everybody. As a buyer will hire a realtor and they will have a conversation and hopefully talk about the journey and the process and the 10 or 11 steps to get to [00:06:00] the closing table. I think people are going to feel better about the process. They're going to have more information.

Cyndee Haydon: And what we're really doing is breaking the cycle of online people like Zillow, realtor. com, it doesn't matter, but they set up the buyer of what I'll call. Search and show, you know, Hey, I see it now you show it. And really, as we know, and actually the data Chris Smith put out last week was only 2% of buyers on Zillow are buying houses.

Cyndee Haydon: So it's fun, it's entertainment, you know. I mean, it's just like when I go on QVC and I go, what would I like? Or Amazon, but. It doesn't mean that that's the best way to buy a house or that's all there is. And from there, somebody just puts numbers on a contract. So I do think that we've been asking for an elevated professionalism for a number of years.

Cyndee Haydon: And we haven't known how to get there. I think this will force the realtors to have a higher level of professionalism and it'll give the space because everybody has to play by the same rules to make sure [00:07:00] that consumers are getting the best information. They're making a smart decision and not just whoever answered the question.

Cyndee Haydon: An inquiry about a house online and then going through the process. I think they'll have a better experience. So I really think that we're going to look back on this in a few years and say, wow, that was the unintended consequence was really getting the consumer great help. And they didn't even know how to gauge that help before because they were just trying, Hey, I see something I want to go see.

Cyndee Haydon: And I want, I see it, show it, and then you're stuck with somebody that may not have the skills that you wanted. But it all happened so fast that now you are, now you're by default, you know, represented by an agent that you never really took the time to maybe ask the right questions. And make sure that that was the best fit for your needs.

Tracy Hayes: Well, it's like every salesperson. I mean, if someone's ready to close, you close, you don't have to continue going on and explaining all the benefits and, and, uh, and so forth, because they're basically saying, I'm ready to buy on here, where [00:08:00] do I need to sign? And we skipped all, all that in between. I agree.

Tracy Hayes: And I think, uh, forums like this, uh, in the social media aspect, creating their YouTube pages where they're, they're showing, um, an idea I came with a podcast, uh, a few podcasts ago was keep a journal of everything you do with your client. You know, those eight o'clock calls where you're, Basically being a therapist, you know, uh, the ones you had to go in and clean the toilet and, and, uh, sweep the floors, vacuum and everything before the open house or showing or photography, all those little things, because you need to express a lot of people don't understand.

Tracy Hayes: Like I said, when we talked about this before, a lot of the, it's an iceberg and all that stuff that's under the water, you don't see that agents are doing. Um, and, and really, I think they're going to gain credibility. And like you said, slow down a little bit and, and, and, uh, smell the roses, so to speak, and explain some of those things [00:09:00] that, uh, that buyers need to know and sellers.

Tracy Hayes: So. 

Cyndee Haydon: Absolutely. I think it's going to, again, I think it's going to be, I think there are going to be probably less people. Holding, uh, being members of, of the 5 a million in 2012, there were, there were just over a million. So that's quite an increase, but again, what, what the consumer doesn't realize. And so this is where I think there's going to be transparency is that only 25 percent of realtors sell six or more homes a year.

Cyndee Haydon: Um, six or more is not that many to have the experience to guide somebody. But let's just say five and below is really a limited experience. Right. And so 75 percent of people, many of us would argue, like, is it full time? Do they have the experience? Are they like with somebody that can help them? And so when you're a consumer and it's your largest purchase.[00:10:00] 

Cyndee Haydon: getting people that are skilled and experienced, most people would say that's what they want, but that's not what most people are getting.

Tracy Hayes: Um, switch subjects. Our, our governor, uh, came out and it's actually going, I'm listening to soundbites all over the country. Um, this anti squatter. Uh, legislation. What's our are all the real tour friends out there? What's the talk? Uh, you know, uh, it seems to be positive. Do you see it as a positive thing?

Tracy Hayes: And I mean, obviously being with the National Association, seeing some of this legislation, other states taking similar action. 

Cyndee Haydon: Well, I think it's very needed. I think that most Americans cannot imagine that you own a home. Somehow somebody gets access, even if it's breaking in and you now have this laborious, time consuming process to reclaim your home.

Cyndee Haydon: I'll tell you [00:11:00] where I've seen it come up, you know, and it's a concern is when someone passes away and a home's in probate. And so. And somebody, you know, that's one of the first things is you've got to secure the property. You've got to manage it because of that, the risk of squatters and the risk of now having to reclaim the property that's yours.

Cyndee Haydon: And of course, obviously realtors are totally defending private property rights. And that is a basic private property, right? It is your property. And somebody should not be able to just break in and then claim it. And so I think there's been some fraud out in the, um, Online world that has put some unfortunate victims in a bad place.

Cyndee Haydon: Meaning someone advertises a house for rent. It's not really for rent. They pay somebody some money. And while I feel sorry for them, it doesn't negate the rights of the person that owns the property. And so I think that Governor DeSantis and Florida are on the right side of that. And I [00:12:00] think that that's another reason you continue to see people comfortable investing in real estate in Florida.

Cyndee Haydon: So again, I think overwhelmingly people are supportive of it. 

Tracy Hayes: You know, it just gave me a thought of that part. Um, as I know that kind of thing has been going on where someone acts as if they're the owner, they rent it out, they're collecting the money. Meanwhile, a couple months later, the owner, if it's not longer, the owner finds out these people are living in this house and who are you?

Tracy Hayes: And they said, well, we rented it from John. Well, John doesn't own the house and, and, uh, that sort of thing. How important is maybe to have a real estate agent, a professional that's going to make sure John owns the house. And it, you know, in having representation on the front end, going in and negotiating, that's just another reason why a real estate professional is needed.

Cyndee Haydon: Absolutely. And even we've now as realtors taken extra steps because many times someone will approach [00:13:00] us about listing or selling a property and confirming that ownership and confirming, especially when something might be in a LLC. Right. Seeing those documents, ensuring that someone has the right to engage somebody to rent, lease, buy, sell those properties.

Cyndee Haydon: So I do think that unfortunately there are people that if they put their energy into something productive, they would probably do great. And for some reason they tend to focus on these, these ways that are taking advantage of other people, it's unfortunate. And so again, having the ability. To have people know how to look after that makes a big difference.

Cyndee Haydon: And it's interesting. We just had a client who had inherited a property, but Florida law says you have to file the will in 10 days in the County where someone passed away. They lived over in the space coast. They didn't do it. Um, let a couple of months go by and the sister of the person that passed away.

Cyndee Haydon: Filed [00:14:00] for the property. So we had an all cash buyer and in the middle of title, we're like, oh, we have a problem here. And it could have been avoided again, if we'd have talked about it early and gotten through that process of, you know, these things need to be in place, right? So it really is the resources that we bring to the table help in many, in many aspects.

Cyndee Haydon: Of the process. 

Tracy Hayes: Yes. All right. We're going to switch to our next gear and we're going to get into our topic subject here insurance. And I wanted to ask you, um, you know, as I was putting my questions together and doing a research, um, your chair of the insurance committee, I wanted to just ask you personally is, you know, Obviously you're very dedicated to the profession.

Tracy Hayes: You are very involved in all, in many aspects, keeping informed to, uh, educate the others. Um, and you've made yourself a point person. Um, but why insurance is search something that you have, uh, Just a interest in, or it was [00:15:00] just an opportunity to, um, you know, carry on your leadership and they needed someone to lead there.

Cyndee Haydon: Well, thank you for asking because it's very personal. Um, when I was in college and Hurricane Andrew after college, Hurricane Andrew happened, my best friend and roommate lived in Miami and lost everything and lived in a trailer with her young children. For the, for a couple of years, I got rebuilt. And so I saw what happened when a whole community, uh, has something happened prior to that, or in that timeframe.

Cyndee Haydon: Um, on Christmas day, we had someone break into our home and lost everything in a house fire and I had really good insurance. And so while emotionally my baby pictures, my college things were all gone, my ability to be financially resilient and get my family back on our feet was made possible by having good insurance and had that risk transfer to, to the ability to get back on my feet.

Cyndee Haydon: The third thing that happened was when. [00:16:00] Bigger waters happened in 2012. Congress passed a law to say, we've been having charging, not actually correct rates. We're going to go to the full actuarial rate in one fell swoop, and they did it retroactive 6 months. So, as a realtor, there were people I had sold in the previous 6 months that had bought in a flood zone property and all of a sudden their flood insurance went from 1400.

Cyndee Haydon: to 14, 000. No escrow, no deductibles were allowed at that time. And I had a retired veteran looked me in the eyes with tears and said, I didn't do anything wrong. And you just foreclosed on me. And I just am super passionate and understood early on that insurance is the housing affordability Third leg of the stool that people often overlook.

Cyndee Haydon: And obviously now it's gotten really painful. So people are aware, but I've kind of been shouting it from the mountaintops for seven years. [00:17:00] And mostly because. We're equally damaged if our neighbor's not insured. So really it is something where we want everyone to understand how to be resilient, how to get back on their feet, because, because if our neighbor is the house is full of mold and not fixed, it's not going to help us.

Cyndee Haydon: And so again, it's, yes. Do we want to do this for all the right reasons, but there's a very pragmatic neighborhood family reason that, that, that speaks to my heart and why I care so deeply about it. You know, and so I made a commitment to try to do everything I could to educate people to make the right decisions and to be as protected as, as possible, um, going forward, 

Tracy Hayes: you know, I don't think many people think about the neighbor.

Tracy Hayes: Part of our, uh, you know, in, in the over the, you know, we go back 15 years ago, 2000, well, not even 50, you know, 2008, 2009, when the foreclosures were [00:18:00] going on and how that affected, you know, to have a house and we had a house next door to us where, you know, divorce, she just walked away from it. I mean, she literally left her wedding dress in the closet.

Tracy Hayes: Uh, if you want to understand, you know, the yards go, you know, to weeds, to dirt and. You know, it's just, it's just, it's not good for the community. And it's not, you know, you're sitting next door. If you had to sell your home and someone's come and look at it and they're looking at that house next door and they're like, you know, when's this going to happen, when's this going to, you know, uh, get fixed.

Tracy Hayes: I mean, thank goodness now for the most part, you know, the foreclosures are washed out. I mean, there's still foreclosures that go on for other reasons, but, uh, you know, it was rampant. I mean, I had one across the street. That happened and one next door that happened and we actually bought a foreclosure. So I mean, you know, when those things go on You think about foreclosure, but insurance is the same thing, you know We have a storm come through and the house is [00:19:00] damaged And they're not properly insured or not insured at all and all of a sudden that house is sitting there And maybe they're walking away from it and You know, yeah, yeah, there's investors that may invest but who knows how much they owed on it And then is investor going to buy that and then you know, what's it going to cost to fix it up?

Tracy Hayes: That could sit there for years, uh, like, you know, um, and that could that could happen in any neighborhood Uh, you know, especially I imagine some of the the beach communities where they might get damaged more, you know Should a hurricane come through i'm sure fort myers You know is still dealing with that Situation right now where people were underinsured I I want to start off and I know we're going to cover a lot of different things, but The citizens is brought up a lot.

Tracy Hayes: Um, I don't think, and I really didn't understand until I started reading some of the articles, cause I've heard you've mentioned it. I've heard other people mentioned citizens, but what role does citizens play in Florida insurance? And, and I don't know, [00:20:00] I guess I would say it's from reading between the lines.

Tracy Hayes: If it wasn't for citizens, a lot of people wouldn't be insured in Florida. 

Cyndee Haydon: That's true. Um, it was designed to be the insurer of last resort. And what happened was florida was unique in the country. We had a loophole that was designed to protect our residents and consumers. It's called the one way attorney fee.

Cyndee Haydon: And So what happened is some lawyers figured out how to, um, leverage that to create claims to expand claims to raise the cost of these lawsuits. And so what happened was while we had citizens picking up some slack over the last 7, 8 years, it went from that being a minor player. To a major player as traditional insurance companies tapped out because they had lost so much.

Cyndee Haydon: Right. I mean, [00:21:00] I think the numbers were a billion a year, the last five years. Now the good news is. The trends reversing and we're, we're seeing for the first time citizens report positive in the black. So that's a positive thing. But what happened was two things. One is it was the insurer of last resort people started pulling out.

Cyndee Haydon: So then the options of new people buying houses was like. Okay, they'll take it. Okay. When other people said, we won't do it. If it's this old, we won't do it. If it has this electric, we won't do it. If the roof is this age, citizens would. Now, here's where we got into a little problem back when the market in like 2012 was, uh, we were coming out of the short sale and just what you talked about all those crises.

Cyndee Haydon: They put a cap on how much citizens could increase, which was 1 percent a year. Okay. So what happened was we stopped really having that actuarial balance. And so while it was supposed to be the insurer of last resort, all of a sudden today, it's often half [00:22:00] the cost of other insurers. So consumers trying to get in and you know, with the mortgage, you're trying to qualify them.

Cyndee Haydon: You're like, Hey, if I can get you half, it may not be as, as good and robust at coverage possibly, but you can get in the house. That is kind of what we saw just explode the last four years. In my experience, so, so then they got to a point and they said, look, we're the reason that they're able to get away at 50 percent is because they don't carry that reinsurance that a traditional company would have to do to be able to qualify to be your lender to be able to say, yes, you're You are able to loan on homes and we will allow you to be the insurer.

Cyndee Haydon: So they realized if we have a really big claim, and obviously you've seen hurricanes, you know, it's like spaghetti across Florida. They can come in one way and come across the state and back across. So the potential for really big losses here is significant. And so they said, we got to, we got to depopulate.

Cyndee Haydon: So they have been in the process. Um, and [00:23:00] we'll talk more about what changes have been made to make that. That kind of happening, but basically it is the insurer of last resort. They have had to be not actually sound because they've had limited ability to raise their rates. And last year they made some changes that we can talk about, but it has been the, the insurer that actually would insure most of our older housing stock when other people the last few years have said no, because the risk of a claim on a house that's 1980s and a water pipe breaking is much greater than a 2024.

Cyndee Haydon: So that's been the journey. Um, hopefully that helps. 

Tracy Hayes: Um, you, one of the list of things that caused some of the, the cost is reinsurance. You said citizens wasn't required. Explain reinsurance and then how it applied to citizens, uh, here, who was their reinsurance? 

Cyndee Haydon: Every resident [00:24:00] of Florida, regardless of who you have for insurance.

Cyndee Haydon: So if you have state farm, if you have all state, if you have, you know, um, various ones, tap slide, it doesn't matter if we have a loss and citizens cannot pay it, they have a mechanism to put an assessment across every person that has insurance, car insurance, everything to get that money back. So, so we are all in effect, the reinsurance, but most people don't understand that most, most people do not understand that you are the reinsurer of every person that has a citizen's insurance policy.

Tracy Hayes: So if I'm hearing you correctly, Insurance is, uh, citizens is in the red because of the claims having to be paid out versus the premiums coming in. Uh, the, the state is, uh, putting basically requiring all the other insurances in [00:25:00] there to collect a certain amount to pay into this pool. Am I, Kind of simplifying that.

Cyndee Haydon: Well, there, there is, there is actually, you're getting into the weeds that I can't, but what I can say is this, let me say different. First of all, Athena is going to, we're seeing the first time that citizens is in the black for a number of years. So we went from 2. 2 billion in the red to a little over 700, 000 in the black.

Cyndee Haydon: So one, we're making progress. I just want to be clear on that. Two is that if we had a really big loss, so imagine, imagine you had a car accident, normally you're paying a deductible and you guys are working it out in this case, you go, I don't have a deductible, I can't pay this, or I don't have the insurance and they say, okay, well, everybody in future home realty has to pay it for you.

Cyndee Haydon: Like people don't think that they're going to cover your loss. Right. But everybody, it's like just unilaterally, everybody's going to cover it or every, you know, every, every realtor or every mortgage person. So it's that way [00:26:00] for every person that has an insurance policy of any kind in Florida could be on the hook for an assessment.

Cyndee Haydon: Now that assessment is sort of like in a condo, it's not automatic. You're not, you know, but if something were to happen and there were some concerns and there were actually some things they were working through that there could have been a small assessment after idalia. Um, because they were, they were concerned about some things, but they did, they didn't, but again, if we had something large, they would be able to do that and everybody's bill might have a thousand dollars extra on it.

Cyndee Haydon: Right. And then they would cut, that's where they would get that money from, but the normal insurance company isn't allowed to do that now, just to go full circle. Because, you know, in the mortgage arena, Fannie, Freddie, FHFA, they cover 87 percent of the mortgages or some such, maybe more, right? So they have to approve your insurance.

Cyndee Haydon: The state of Florida, last year, when they made the changes, went to them and said, [00:27:00] We want to be able to sort of do this in a reinsurance plan. We want to do some things, you know, give us some time to clear this up. The federal government felt like they were on the right path and actually did approve that for the first time in history.

Cyndee Haydon: So they gave them some bandwidth to get this stuff on this trend, that it was more in line with what you would expect, healthy, uh, Insurance management, risk management to be. So again, uh, that was a big, that was a big plus. 

Tracy Hayes: Well, to, to kind of level off. So, you know, like I said, they start getting into black.

Tracy Hayes: They don't have, they're not having to, I'm going to call it a surcharge. Surcharge everybody for everybody else now to make up that two point, whatever billion that you said they were in the red, right? Yeah. The kind of, uh, level the playing field, so to speak. 

Cyndee Haydon: Right, right. And um, I will, I will say one, one thing on the national level was that, you know, you might remember Congress was battling [00:28:00] on passing a budget where we've had, you know, again, we've gone to quite a long time, but flood insurance was, you know, set to expire, but it did get reauthorized.

Cyndee Haydon: So again, that is, um, important for everybody that gets a mortgage. In a flood zone. And now in Florida, we didn't say it, but citizens now requires every policyholder to have flood insurance. So if you're a new policyholder and buying a house and it's, and you're getting citizens, you would be required to have flood insurance at the time of purchase.

Cyndee Haydon: And now we're in this. period of phasing in 600, 000 valued homes were last year, 000 and everybody. So we have a four year plan and um, so when we talk about 1. 4 million people in citizens, just to give you an idea, All the people that are required to have flood insurance in the country is 5 million. We already had 1 million of those insured.

Cyndee Haydon: And now you have another 1. 4. Now it's down to like 1 point. So it's [00:29:00] almost doubling the amount of people covered in Florida with flood insurance and a large portion of. The coverage for the United States. So again, having that flood insurance reauthorized is really important for us. 

Tracy Hayes: Knowing what, you know, throughout the state.

Tracy Hayes: And I was at a, uh, was down in St. John's County. Uh, I forget what, uh, the County representative was there. And I think we were there talking about at that time, there, the flood maps were changing. I don't know, this is three or four years ago, maybe. Um, And their recommendation was if you live in florida, you should have flood insurance You what is your personal opinion from miami to?

Tracy Hayes: Pensacola jacksonville to naples. I mean what what should everyone have some sort of flood insurance? 

Cyndee Haydon: Well, I know this might be a newsflash, but we are a peninsula on a peninsula. And so obviously the, the threat of flooding is, is everywhere. [00:30:00] And X is a flood zone. It just says it one in 500. But the thing that I learned working within AR.

Cyndee Haydon: That most people don't know is the reason that 40 percent of flood claims often happen outside of where you would think of coastal and flood designated areas is because FEMA has never accounted for rain and precipitation. And so really the projection is that twice as many people, if 5 million people have flood insurance today, it really should be 10 more.

Cyndee Haydon: So. I think the answer is, you know, homeowners insurance does not cover rising water, and many people find out too late, assuming, which is really kind of dovetails us into the new flood disclosure that every person will be getting, but yes, it is smart. And it, and it should be actuarially accurate. And so here's the deal.

Cyndee Haydon: If you are in a non required flood zone, an X zone or an X 500, and your premium [00:31:00] is high, meaning closer to 4, 000, you are in a high risk area. You just get the benefit of getting to repair your home where someone like me living on the coast has to manage to a 50 percent rule and at any time I could lose it all based on a claim.

Tracy Hayes: We're in. Uh, on the subject of citizens still here in the, um, I imagine part of leveling that playing field, getting citizens to, you know, the black, uh, instead of being in such a, uh, billions of dollars in red, is this depopulation in trying to, um, uh, uh, read in it was if the policies within 20%, they want you to move over to a private insurer.

Cyndee Haydon: Right. Um, I think the important thing for every homeowner to know that has property insurance is you may think you're on citizens and [00:32:00] you are not. You're up for renewal next November. Let's just say, and if you're like me, you get stuff in the mail and so much of it's junk. You just ignore it. And what you really have to be vigilant about is you are getting offers from other companies, and it could be more than 20%.

Cyndee Haydon: If you do not open that and decline it, you could find yourself at a much higher rate than the 20%. So I think that's a really important tip for people right now to know. Now, if you open it up and it's under 20 percent and you You don't have a choice. You must accept that and leave citizens at the renewal.

Cyndee Haydon: But the bigger scary thing is that the average consumer doesn't realize that, okay, they might think, okay, well, they're going to put me in something. It's within 20%. I'm not really worried about it, but there were people back in December who were getting offers that could be 40, 50 percent higher than what they were paying.

Cyndee Haydon: They did not open it and, and deny wanting that turn it down. And they got out of [00:33:00] citizens and into that offer without realizing it. I

Tracy Hayes: mean, obviously, how do you differentiate between what's just an advertisement to get you to call, right? Everything's free. You know, you can get your lower your insurance just to get someone to call and actually inquire, are these legitimate offers that they're getting the information through citizens and making the offer, the private insurer making the offer, is that what's happening?

Cyndee Haydon: So here's what I do. And I would, and I would encourage other people is you always want to go straight to your agent, right? So, and I have an agent, not just the company. So I have an agent that I would call and ask, is this legit? And what is this? And do I have to do it? I got taken out of citizens last year to a tip tap.

Cyndee Haydon: And again, when it came, it was within that 20%. So I knew that that was going to be. But I had, but there were [00:34:00] other things and other people I was hearing and seeing online that came before that were more than 20%. So again, just making sure that consumers realize that no matter what you've gotten the mail about it, I would be calling my agent and just say, Hey, tell me, tell me what, what I need to know about this.

Cyndee Haydon: If they say throw it in the trash or just Mark, no, or call and say no, whatever they tell you to do that. Can I share one other quick tip that I've learned that people might be surprised? 

Tracy Hayes: That's why we're here. 

Cyndee Haydon: Um, So a lot of times people, obviously we're not insurance experts and something comes up, maybe a storm and you have a question like, Hey, if I get water in my window, is that covered?

Cyndee Haydon: Or is that flood insurance? Right? Like older people, people have lived here often will have questions. And they would call. So let's say you call State Farm or you call Progressive and you didn't call your agent, you called the company, like they give you this handy consumer line. When you do that, [00:35:00] you literally have a claim on your property now.

Cyndee Haydon: A zero claim, but you have a claim against your property. And some people that are super nervous and worried and kind of always want information might make multiple calls and have multiple claims and get canceled because there are multiple claim and they don't even know what they did wrong. Can you believe that?

Cyndee Haydon: So always, always call your agent. I know. So that's, so if I have one tip today, it is call your agent and let them give you advice. And, uh, and if you have questions, call your agent before you call the company, because you really could be shooting yourself in the foot. 

Tracy Hayes: Yeah,

Tracy Hayes: that, that's almost like the trigger leads, you know, in the mortgage world, you know, we go pull someone's credit and then the credit bureau sell it to everybody. Right. And I'll say, that's the first thing that came to my head when you were saying now, like, oh my God, [00:36:00] the, the fact that we, you know, where, where else can they get a few more dollars?

Tracy Hayes: Right. And to me, that's a consumer, you know, we have the CFPB where, where are they at with that? You know that that just because someone called and asked a question They could have been sitting at dinner one night and challenged their cousin to that question and had nothing to do with their home 

Cyndee Haydon: Yeah.

Cyndee Haydon: I'm not even sure how it's treated. If I were to call them and say, if I put in new windows, does that help? Like I'm literally like, I do not do anything without talking directly to my agent. And if you don't have an agent, you may want to consider as you go through that, figuring that out, because all of us can have an agent.

Cyndee Haydon: So talk to a local realtor and find out who they would recommend. because they are going to be just like we are in real estate. Just like you are in mortgage, Tracy, they are going to help you navigate, uh, the best way to not work against [00:37:00] yourself. 

Tracy Hayes: Well, I mean, for the agents that are listening here to this right here, this is something you need to be putting down in your notebook and educating the, especially these people coming from out of state who don't understand You know, Florida insurance in general, uh, how it's a little different than other States coming in.

Tracy Hayes: But that little tidbit right there, I mean, that's, uh, my goodness. I don't even know where to go with that. 

Cyndee Haydon: I know, but I thought we'd throw it down and give somebody some value today. So that's probably not something that 

Tracy Hayes: is a hundred percent value. Um, Oh, wow. Um, all right. So there was some, um, Well, actually, I'm going in order here nearly, uh, in the last year, we saw nearly on average a 25 percent increase in premium statewide.

Tracy Hayes: South Florida has had, uh, their greater challenges. They're, they're the high end of, of those, uh, uh, premium changes. There are [00:38:00] several factors. We talked about reinsurance, uh, uh, being one of those factors, uh, from the private insurance, you know, getting off of citizens and talking about the private insurance, uh, premiums.

Tracy Hayes: Um, one, we talked about pre show we wanted to get in. Why is Florida? Uh, besides we know, especially in South Florida, there's a lot of fraud in all aspects, whether it's Medicare, Medicaid, all that kind of stuff. There's a lot of fraud that goes on. Um, why is litigation so much higher in Florida than any of the four other 49 states?

Cyndee Haydon: Well, hopefully we've changed that. The reason that litigation was higher in Florida is we had a very, uh, consumer friendly. rule. It was called a one way attorney fee legislation that said, Hey, I'm David and you're Goliath, Mr Insurance. And so if I can sue you and get 1 more than what you offered me, you have to pay me and my [00:39:00] attorneys.

Cyndee Haydon: And so it was really, really designed for, for the little guy like us to say, make sure the insurance person and the companies treated us fairly. And somewhere along the line, about seven years ago, there were attorneys in Miami that figured out a way to basically do assignment of benefits. So it started with maybe I had a, um, a water claim in my house and they would just go straight to remodeling and a lawsuit and not go to the insurance company.

Cyndee Haydon: You know, when you have a car accident, what do you do? What's the first person you call 

Tracy Hayes: the insurance company, 

Cyndee Haydon: right? When you have a water claim in your house, what would be the normal? You would think the first person to call, 

Tracy Hayes: well, besides, you know, someone like service pro to come suck the water out and your insurance company, right?

Cyndee Haydon: Right. Well, this whole, this whole trend started where nobody citizens on like 90 plus percent wasn't even hearing of a claim till they got served with a lawsuit. [00:40:00] So it wasn't like they weren't treating people fairly. It was, it was lawyers who figured out they could assign these benefits. They could inflate the fees of what it costs.

Cyndee Haydon: And so basically what happened was insurance, as you talked about, actuarially they figured out what should losses be. You know, based on mother nature, but when nobody ever could figure out, and we still can't is death by a thousand lawsuits. And so it just got to be bigger and bigger and bigger and more and more fraud.

Cyndee Haydon: And really that's where first was the assignment of benefits and the ability for somebody to say, Hey, I can get you a new roof, a free roof. Just sign this over. And so they changed the way those are done now where people would have to pay their part up front and it can be reimbursed and, and really trying to have the, the insurance company and the consumer working together to do the right thing, but not inflating [00:41:00] it by a third party, kind of guiding people in a weird way.

Cyndee Haydon: So it was really, really unfortunate, 

Tracy Hayes: the assignment of benefits. So, um, yeah, I have the water damage. In the kitchen. I I've got, I've got, I've got a, I've got a claim. They're assigning who, when you say assigning a benefits walk, walk through what's happening there. 

Cyndee Haydon: Sure. Thank you. So when you assign your benefits, let's say you have a water claim, serve pro comes, contractors come.

Cyndee Haydon: The average person we know is, is often living paycheck to paycheck. And you're thinking, how am I going to pay for all this? And I don't know, most contractors want money up front, right? And so that's where the dilemma was. And they said, Hey, don't worry about it. Kind of like when you go to your doctor about health insurance, we're going to go submit all the claims to insurance.

Cyndee Haydon: We're going to go take care of this for you. So basically that's what they said is sign this, we'll take over and we'll do everything and get [00:42:00] this taken care of for you. And so the consumer was getting the house quickly repaired and not having to have, um, Those out of pocket costs up front. And then a lot of things happen at, through the process that turned out to be not the most efficient or economical way to get that done.

Cyndee Haydon: And eventually the thing about fraud is. twofold. If you have a water claim, the average water claims 30, 000. But you know, like if you have a water claim in your kitchen, they will replace the cabinets on the bottom that got damaged, but they don't replace the ones above. So again, some of these things would be like, Hey, I'll do the whole thing.

Cyndee Haydon: And so what would happen is an adjuster from the insurance company Didn't even see the damage or what was there until after the fact they're getting these receipts They're seeing a finished kitchen and they're getting a bill and an attorney says pay it or we're suing you It was just a hot mess. 

Tracy Hayes: Yes Yeah, I I can see that in the um, you know [00:43:00] years ago Uh, it seems like almost 20 years ago, being in a car accident, a friend of mine referred me to one of these, uh, lawyers.

Tracy Hayes: They immediately like, Hey, go see this chiropractor and you know, you're getting massages and all this chiropractic thing, and they're just, they're, you're assigning those benefits over and they're going after the insurance company to get whatever they can get out of, you know, some of the wins, some of the lose, you know, and, and what they cost, but they got this fixed cost of their employees anyway, so they're just running you through there.

Tracy Hayes: Um, and you know, I don't know what the, I never did see the, obviously that the, the insurance company took care of that chiropractic bill, but I don't think I need it anywhere near what, you know, the, the actions that were, you know, the, the amount of times I went there type of thing. And now I see. They're signing that over to that contractor and the contractors rolling the dice to win that, uh, um, legal, uh, action they're taking.

Tracy Hayes: Uh, and obviously the attorneys are [00:44:00] involved in there as well. Yeah. Wow. 

Cyndee Haydon: So here's how, you know, so you could, you could look at and go, okay, in traditional sense, somebody had a water claim, there's work that needs to be done. And in effect that might be a little less efficient. But here's where it started to go really wrong is people would start to come up and even they have pictures of people going on people's roofs with like golf shoes.

Cyndee Haydon: And they're like, Oh my gosh, this has been hit by hail. We can get you a whole new roof. And again, as we looked over time, the last seven years, the cost of materials, the cost of labor, And then also the cost of lawsuits really escalated the pricing of, of things. And so that was where we just saw it go crazy.

Cyndee Haydon: Um, and that is why when you hear things like, uh, insurers don't want to cover roofs older than 10 years. Now we passed a law that it's 15 now last year, but the reason was, If [00:45:00] you have a roof older than 10 years, most people are very susceptible to someone coming and offering you a free roof. And so again, they're like the older the roof, the more people know they're going to have to pay it.

Cyndee Haydon: Why should we be, why should they be gaming an insurance system to get a roof? It's not, we're not a home maintenance program. You know, we're supposed to be for catastrophic loss. The, the other, the other pieces, Florida had a situation where, you know, we, if any of it was damaged, you had to replace the whole roof.

Cyndee Haydon: And now there's a lower threshold that some repairs could happen. But again, I think the thing that we need to take away is some consumers benefited, but all consumers lost. Because you see how we've had a lack of choice. You see how we're all paying exorbitant, more prices. So, you know, there is no free lunch and we all know that.

Cyndee Haydon: And this has just been borne out when basically we broke the system in Florida. And the reason, you know, it is that of every dollar that [00:46:00] insurance company paid out, I think it was. Eight, 8 that the, that the consumer got, that's just wrong. I mean, 8. So less than 10 percent of it went to the person to help them with their house.

Cyndee Haydon: Just shows you how much was over the top for, for litigators, contractor, everybody, but the consumer. 

Tracy Hayes: So as some of these changes are going on, the positive thing is now, uh, you know, is. We've had more insurers, you know, competition come in, uh, that's the, the, the positive notice. Some of this, uh, legislation has, uh, you know, worked it's through some don't think it's enough yet, which I don't, I don't even give your opinion on that, but, um, just bringing in natural competition to drive price down.

Cyndee Haydon: So I think that we have eight new insurers that have come recently. And I think the fact that people are willing to [00:47:00] come back in says that they think we're on the right path. Just like when, uh, you know, Fannie and Freddie said, Hey, we're going to support you. We think you're on the right path. Why that's important is think about it.

Cyndee Haydon: Insurance companies for five years went to work every day and they, they had to pay money for the privilege of working right. They were in the red. So it says that they believe that there's an opportunity to have, you know, to be in the black, right? Well, you don't operate a business. We're not a charity.

Cyndee Haydon: There's gotta be the prospect of that. So I think that that is a good sign. I also think that we, that what we're seeing is litigation is dropped. Insurance is increasing, options are increasing. And so we're getting a stabilization, which is the first step. We've got to have it stable. We need to and I think stabilization is an important step because when you work with a buyer, Tracy, or I work with a buyer, I have to be able to give them some expectation about year two.[00:48:00] 

Cyndee Haydon: How do you get in a house and you're getting people in there and they're, a teacher, a firefighter, a policeman that they don't work on commission like us. Like we could hustle and sell another house, mortgage another, you know, we could get another paycheck to pay for it. But you know, how does the average person go from 1800 to 4, 000 and have any ability to really pay for that?

Cyndee Haydon: So now I think we could see stable and what stable looks like to me, when I look across the country because of inflation, because of labor, because the cost of goods. About 10 to 12 percent is what other states that are, that don't have issues. That's kind of what you're going to see is, is we know that this year, it's going to cost more to do a kitchen than it did last year.

Cyndee Haydon: Right? We, we know that labor, we know that an inflation is like almost at 5%. So, you know, being at, at 12%, 10 or 12 percent is something that. That also isn't going to break most families. You know, if your bill is 2000 and the next year, your bill is [00:49:00] 2200, like you're probably not losing the house over that.

Cyndee Haydon: But when you face, you know, again, especially first time home buyers, seniors on fixed income, staying in that house, when you have a 2, 000 increase, you know, or you have, you know, that's 200 a month that they got to decide between medication and food. Um, It's, it's really impacting people and, and we're seeing that in a slowdown.

Cyndee Haydon: I think it's the number, I think it's a, it is a bigger reason in Florida, why fewer homes are selling than the interest rate. In my opinion, even because I can help a buyer buy down an interest rate. You and I can do that together, right? We can get them in and we, then they could refinance. There's ways, there's nothing I can do about insurance.

Cyndee Haydon: Now we're going to talk about my safe Florida homes a few things, but really not a lot until now. And so again, this stabilization has been critical to give [00:50:00] people a place to make good decisions going forward. 

Tracy Hayes: The articles we were working off of the legislative victories, um, 230 million to help Floridians harden their homes and condos, um, to hopefully save on insurance.

Tracy Hayes: And my question when I read that is, You know, really is, was that really any, a true sticking point for the insurance companies on raising their rates was they didn't think, you know, there was, there was all these homes that were not, you know, uh, had a good enough roof on them or, or whatever windows or whatever it may be.

Cyndee Haydon: I do think that, first of all, there's very little we can do, right? There's very little that Tallahassee can do. Um, I mean, insurers are looking at their companies or public companies, their for profit companies. So what they did actually was really, I think, a brilliant use of our money. And [00:51:00] yes, the thing is that many people are facing insurance companies that are saying, replace your roof or lose your insurance.

Cyndee Haydon: And so the ability to have someone get helped in that and the way that my safe florida home worked is it would cover up to 15, 000. You pay five, they pay 10 or if it was less than that, they would pay 2 for every 1 you paid. And so what they experienced over the last two years was on average, people were saving a thousand dollars off their insurance bill, so just under a hundred bucks, but it was a positive trend, right?

Cyndee Haydon: It helped them make, but I think the other piece of it that is, On the legislator's minds on, on people that understand minds, um, and, and going through a busy hurricane season last year. And the promise of, or the prediction of one this year is we also want our neighbors to be in safe homes. And we know that a [00:52:00] good roof is going to protect the home from having water damage, from having things, you know, blow out.

Cyndee Haydon: I mean, that it is the single best thing for resiliency. So I think health and safety was a part of it. And then the ability to also help because again, if you look at places like in Fort Myers, where people had to newer standards, there was less damage after the fact, and I think that's everybody's goal as well.

Cyndee Haydon: It's not just the rate, but let's minimize what might be needed going forward, which will keep our rates. rather than, than if everybody is at a full loss, we're going to see rates react to that too. So I think it was a really good program and up until this year, it was open to everybody that it was their primary home under 700, 000 in value.

Cyndee Haydon: They did some tweaking this year and the tweaks were, they wanted to make sure that The people in the most vulnerable, the lowest income, the least able to do [00:53:00] it would have the first shot at the money. And so for the first 60 days this year, people that are in that lower income bracket have the chance to get access to that money for free.

Cyndee Haydon: First, and then it'll open up. So if you as a realtor or a mortgage person or a neighbor know somebody that, you know, financially has a tough time and might be in that 120%, the average median income, or, you know, look at the rules, but somebody can look it up for you. The people that typically qualify for down payment assistance, you know, those people can get this work done first.

Cyndee Haydon: And I believe I've not seen the new plan yet, but I believe there's even an ability that they may not have. So really now is the time to make sure your home is as secure and resilient as possible and as hardened as possible. 

Tracy Hayes: Um, I want to flip over to condos because they're, you know, they're seeing their fees go up [00:54:00] because insurance is becoming, uh, you know, hitting some of these, uh, Complexes more than others, but it's it's you know, florida.

Tracy Hayes: We have a lot of condos Uh, it's it's it's there but now all of a sudden they're not Not that they were always a formula. Everyone always says. Oh, I go get a can I get a condo versus single family house? Well, it's a lot of times when you factor in the fees Because they're taking care of A lot of stuff.

Tracy Hayes: Um, it's not, you know, the condo price point might be lower, but their cost is, you know, not much different than a single family home, but insurance is starting to, you know, become a factor there. What are, what are, uh, things that if you know, things going on as, as far as trying to, you know, tamper down the condos going out of control.

Cyndee Haydon: Well, I think all of us that are in the business have a lot of concerns over condos and what's going to happen in the next five years. And I think there's two [00:55:00] pieces to the insurance. One is again, like a home, the value of properties have gone up and they're looking at kind of their hardening and their resilience with a with a A bigger microscope or magnifying glass.

Cyndee Haydon: And they're finding that they need more insurance. And so that, that it is costing more right now, this year citizens, it's called residential commercial. That's what a condo is. Residential commercial is the largest growth in citizens because there's no other place that people are not writing. Third parties are not writing.

Cyndee Haydon: And so, um, but I also think we have to be honest that part of. That insurance reflects the condition of the properties. And so for places like Pinellas County, which has an older housing stock, many of these condos are at greater risk for a claim if you were built in the seventies and eighties. And now [00:56:00] we have that statute for the milestone study to just look at all the All the systems much more so than we did in the past.

Cyndee Haydon: And in addition, mortgage people and insurance people are more concerned about the asset that they are putting their money behind. And so there are reasons why people are charging more. And so, again, I think that's going to be one of those points that we're going to. Still see pain around pain around and um, um, I, and the other thing that you didn't say, but you know, this, um, is in condos, the challenge we're having, we've brought it to Florida realtors attention is FHFA will not do warrantable condos.

Cyndee Haydon: If you have more than a 5 percent deductible for insurance, And so the insurance companies are asking for 10 percent [00:57:00] many times, which the condos understand, and we're happy to do. But if all of a sudden you no longer have access to that 30 year mortgage, that's problematic in many ways. And so we need to be able to educate at the federal level, why.

Cyndee Haydon: A 10 percent deductible actually makes the property more beneficial because it means the owners are taking a greater stake and not having a claim right doing the preventive stuff that they can do. Um, maybe as a condo association, maybe that roof gets done a little quicker. Maybe those they decide to do hurricane windows as a condo association and work towards those things.

Cyndee Haydon: So I think that, um, I think that one's gonna be one that's still gonna be An area for us to watch and work through. And there's a lot of pitfalls for potential buyers. And I tell you, I would not be buying a condo without a realtor that really dug into the milestone, the minutes, the agendas, the insurance, [00:58:00] because you could be looking at a really bad 10 

Tracy Hayes: percent in reserves.

Tracy Hayes: Right. Right. Right. 

Cyndee Haydon: I, yeah, absolutely. 

Tracy Hayes: Um, we wanted, I know we talked a little bit about before, but I know it's, uh, something you're, um, uh, passionate about and, you know, to go back to flood and we'll finish here because we're coming up right on an hour is, um, and there's the budget, a half a million dollars to research this.

Tracy Hayes: And that's the, the look back on these homes that are in flood areas. If I'm asking that question correctly, I know, you know what I'm asking, but. 

Cyndee Haydon: Yes. I'm going to pull over a little quickie here. Let me see. One, two, three, four, five, six. I need six pens. Okay. I'm going to show some by example because it's easier to say.

Cyndee Haydon: So when you live in a flood zone and you're under that 50 percent rule by FEMA and you go to get a permit, um, FEMA says you cannot improve your house at [00:59:00] any time more than 50 percent of the depreciated value of the home. So, for instance, I bought a home in Madeira Beach last year. It was built in 1950s and The price, because the land is expensive was, um, they told me the house was only worth 250.

Cyndee Haydon: That's what it's insured for with my insurer. Well, FEMA said. The depreciated value of that is 131, 000, so I could do 61, 000 of improvements. Before I had to tear it down and start over or elevate it The problem is to elevate a house right now in pinellas county is about three years and about four hundred thousand dollars So the average person that's not even a real option.

Cyndee Haydon: Like let's just be real Somebody's going to take that house tear it down and somebody is going to build a mcmansion So here's why the look back period I asked my friends Fort Myers, Cape Coral after Hurricane Ian, what did you learn that we need to know? And they [01:00:00] said, we did not understand what we had done to ourselves with the look back period.

Cyndee Haydon: Cape Coral, Fort Myers, Bonita. They had a five year look back, and I'll tell you what that means. It means all the costs are aggregated over five years, and I'll show you what that means. In Sarasota and Manatee, they had a one year look back. So what happened is the storm comes and there's damage. But imagine this, you've owned a home for five years, you put in hurricane windows for 20, 000, you put in a generator for 5, 000, you put in a new water heater for 2000 and now you have damage and you only have this left.

Cyndee Haydon: And when you have damage, they count the cost of taking stuff out against the 50%. Now, imagine you lived in, in, um, Sarasota Manatee and you had a one year look back. The storm happens and you haven't done anything in a year to your house. You have all of this. Plus you [01:01:00] have this because if you look there, their value was pegged five years ago when they started.

Cyndee Haydon: So imagine what the value of a home was five years ago. Or what it is today. So the reason people did it was because the look back period would give a greater discount on something called the community rating system discount. And prior to risk rating 2. 0 in October, 2021, you could say if my flood bill was 5, 000 and I got a 20 percent discount, I would only pay 4, 000.

Cyndee Haydon: I'm trying to do easy math here. Well, once we did risk rating 2. 0, that 1, 000 went away. In most cases. I've been collecting flood decks and they're about a hundred dollars or less because basically let's use my home for an example. If I didn't have FEMA's flood insurance, my flood insurance would be 12, 000.

Cyndee Haydon: I live in a flood zone with FEMA. It's [01:02:00] 4, 000. So what FEMA says is I already gave you 8, 000 in savings. I'm not giving you another thousand down here for a CRS credit. Totally makes sense. But a lot of communities haven't looked at that since they set it in place, and the rules have changed, and now, like Cape Coral and Fort Myers, if you read the news, they're risking losing all their flood insurance discounts, losing access to FEMA, and also the resiliency to recover like other places.

Cyndee Haydon: So, I'm so grateful to representative Linda Chaney, who is my representative and took this issue up and brought the issue to our state legislature. And ideally, we would like to see across the state one year or less and let people be resilient when something happens. So again, that is kind of the process.

Cyndee Haydon: The look back means how much, how far back do they aggregate all the 50 percent costs. And when you look at how much things cost to repair, it puts people in a really bad, [01:03:00] the longer you look back. And if you want to know in reality, the city of St. Petersburg, which is our biggest city here has zero look back.

Cyndee Haydon: So their people are even more resilient. And so again, I just think that, you know, one of the things that's important about advocacy and governing is what was important and doing something valuable. A few years ago, isn't doing the same thing. And are we unintentionally hurting our neighbors? And so super proud of my son.

Cyndee Haydon: He took it up as his capstone project. He's graduated May 15th with public, uh, administration and advocacy. And he did it for a city of Bel Air. Beach and was able to just show them that there is definitely time to relook at it and understand what would be the pro of keeping it versus the con. And again, the residents and the city commissioners, once they understood how things have changed, were very complimentary and moving forward to make their cities more [01:04:00] resilient.

Cyndee Haydon: The final thing I will tell you is this. Every city is different. We have 26 in Pinellas County. We started asking over a year ago, what is the look back period? And there are still 10 places in Pinellas County that haven't been able to tell me. So what is the average consumer do? And also when you look at some of these that have a five year look back, Treasure Island was talking about a 10 year look back.

Cyndee Haydon: We need our residents that are voting for those people making those decisions. Those million dollar homes just became worth only land value, because if I'm in year nine and I've done a bunch of stuff, am I going to pay you a million, 2 million for a house? I'm going to have to tear down because if something happens, I've got no capacity to make an improvement or change it.

Cyndee Haydon: There's really big issues and really costly impacts to consumers that are not understood. And so thank you to rep Cheney. For taking it on and helping me educate and Flora Realtors educate people on what we didn't [01:05:00] know. But that's the benefit of talking to other people around the state and helping to see what do we not know that we don't know and get prepared.

Cyndee Haydon: That's my hope is that we can help others be prepared when, God forbid, something happens. 

Tracy Hayes: I don't think, well, we know that, well, they're not doing the numbers. They think it looks good to save a couple bucks today, not realizing the catastrophic, um, you know, penalties of that situation, you know, and it's great.

Tracy Hayes: I go out to my voters. Hey, I saved you 20 today. But five years from now, you know, you might be moving out of your home because you, you, you're not going to be able to, uh, you know, lift that house, you know, spend all the money, you know, to do it because a catastrophic term. So you're, you're, you're, you're rolling your dice and playing roulette, you know, and your auntie to play is 20 today, but it's going to cost you.

Tracy Hayes: losing, losing this home, [01:06:00] which could be a family home that you've had for years, whatever emotional attachment, or just, you know, that was just your dream home. You wanted to retire in is now gone because yeah, you wanted to save 20 five years ago. 

Cyndee Haydon: And I think one of the biggest, um, challenges in the messaging Pinellas County, uh, got the highest discount rating to 40%.

Cyndee Haydon: And so the news and the people and the floodplain manager, we're talking about, we are saving consumers 40%. But. You know, I went to terry parker high school near you and zero 40 percent of zero or 40 percent of 1 is not very much. 40 percent of 100 is not very much. So as the average consumer, I think we've got to get out of talking percents because again, in coastal communities, there is absolutely no gain.

Cyndee Haydon: There might be a slight adjustment the first year because people that are grandfathered might see that they might have a little fraction. But I've been collecting for over 18 months in Pinellas [01:07:00] County and the average person in from a 200, 000 home to a 2. 5 million home. That CRS credit is zero And if you ask most of those people, would you give up 100 a year to be able to save your home?

Cyndee Haydon: They would say yes, in a heartbeat. 

Tracy Hayes: Um, you make me, cause I remember when I first heard about the look, I didn't quite. Which I think is everyone. I, I, again, I think it was the same, um, presentation that was at the St. John's St. Augustine board and they were presenting and that's when they said everyone should have flood insurance.

Tracy Hayes: And then the whole look back period, especially those in St. Augustine beach area, um, you know, and, and raising their houses and so forth. And, You know, if you don't live out there, you know, you're like, oh, whatever, you know, cause I do live on the west side of 95. Uh, so, uh, just on the west side of 95. So it's not really a big concern to me, but those people on the, on [01:08:00] the east side of 95, uh, yeah, I don't think I guarantee 99.

Tracy Hayes: 9 percent of people have no idea how this actually affects them on a day to day basis. They assume these government. Um, people who are making these decisions in these boards are, are very knowledgeable and I, I would have to say that maybe some of them are, but not enough. 

Cyndee Haydon: Well, I think the important thing to give grace on is things change when risk rating 2.

Cyndee Haydon: 0 changed the way that that benefit, you know, and, and I, and the only reason that I could figure it out is because one, I was sitting at the table on risk rating 2. 0 up at NAR and two, every day I'm with people in a flood zone and I'm like, These dots don't connect. These dots don't connect. And so I kept asking questions and I kept digging in and we finally got an answer, but I don't know the average person could have gotten an answer.

Cyndee Haydon: But now that we know I'm on a passionate mission to help [01:09:00] educate. across our state people to know, hey, you need to look at it and it's in the code. And a lot of times it'll say what you can do with substantial damage or improvements over one year time or five year time. So they don't even make it easy, which at a minimum we should have every municipality have to post what it is.

Cyndee Haydon: And I will tell you that there's a city in our area safety harbor. That has a lifetime look back. And now that I know that I would never sell, I mean, I would inform every buyer, understand. You probably got land value right here. And so, but again, what I got concerned about is what happens to realtors that sell properties.

Cyndee Haydon: And then, because it, Any improvement stays with the house, not the owner. So somebody, you know, everybody loves the renovated house. You move in, you're like, I love this house. Now you decide to do something and find out you're over that and you got to wait five years for anything to happen or you lose everything or the insurance company says, Oh, well they did all this, but you need a new roof and there's no [01:10:00] capacity to do it.

Cyndee Haydon: I'm going to tell you a real world story. The president of the Pinellas realtor organization last year, his daughter bought into town and she bought a renovated house. She was young, pregnant, had a baby and everything was great. Two months after she moved in the AC quit working and she went to the city to get a permit just like a good resident would do.

Cyndee Haydon: And they said, there's no capacity. You have no 50%. You can't. It was like, okay, but that's health and safety in Florida, like mold and all this stuff. Anyway, her dad being who he was and knowing people went down there and I guess, you know, help them understand the health and safety aspect got her to be able to fix it.

Cyndee Haydon: Can you imagine being someone who isn't allowed to get a AC for five years. 

Tracy Hayes: Yep. Not connected. Don't know what to do. I mean, can't afford an attorney, you know, as you would be sitting there very stressed out. And yeah. Um, and that, that is something that, uh, common sense is like, [01:11:00] I can understand someone going in and physically wanting to change the house that they're going to renovate and do construction, whatever.

Tracy Hayes: But like you said, the health and safety things, the roof. The water heater really that's going against that look back. I mean in a c. I just don't understand that 

Cyndee Haydon: right? Yeah, right So there are there are people doing carve out some cities are carving out roofs or carving out So that's a potential some people are carving out after a storm going to zero.

Cyndee Haydon: So meaning they're trying to manage the renovation piece, the updated kitchen and bath. But again, it's not transparent. And I would like to see at a minimum, even if we can't get to one year across the state, I would like to see every municipality have to post what it is so their residents can have their voices heard how they feel about that and understand the impact.

Cyndee Haydon: Because I will tell you, there's a lot of properties that are becoming basically land value. Because again, and the reason we're having a train wreck is [01:12:00] because it didn't used to cost 60, 000 to put on a tile roof. But if you live in a neighborhood with a deed restriction for a tile roof, and you have a five year look back and the insurance company says you have to get a new roof, you may have just lost your house.

Cyndee Haydon: You may have gone from having a house that is your equity and your future and your retirement and your safe Haven. To nothing and you are the mortgage person. 

Tracy Hayes: Let's play, let's play through that. So, um, the roof, you know, who knows, maybe the previous owner, um, you know, did some work on, you know, in the last five years, maybe even get it to ready to sell.

Tracy Hayes: Right. Maybe they renovated the cell and then all of a sudden, you know, you're there two years and you know, the roof's damaged. You know, hot water, whatever it is. All of a sudden you can't get a permit. Now, all of a sudden the insurance company is saying, um, yeah, the roof is now too old. You need a new roofer.

Tracy Hayes: We're not going to insure you. You're a pickle. What do you do? Yeah, that's. [01:13:00] Yeah, I am. I'm actually going to look up St. John's County and I know, uh, 

Cyndee Haydon: definitely tell me what it is. I keep wanting to learn. So that'll be good. Yeah. 

Tracy Hayes: Um, well, and I, I know I want to get this episode over to one of my neighbors is running for Uh, the house of representatives seat that's open, uh, here.

Tracy Hayes: And, uh, I, I told her that, uh, insurance is a, is a big player. Knowing what's going on in insurance and, uh, educating people is, is going to get you an edge, especially real estate agents. Um, you know, uh, and, and the influence that real estate agents have over a lot of voters that they're, they're working with.

Tracy Hayes: So Cindy, I appreciate we're going hour, 15 minutes, a lot. Oh, I 

Cyndee Haydon: appreciate you. Thank you. for the opportunity. 

Tracy Hayes: Something new comes up that we need to get. I don't care if it's 15 minutes. 15 minutes that you say, Hey, I got to get this out. Give me a call. We'll go live and we'll, we'll talk about it. Cause this is great stuff.

Tracy Hayes: And I'm hopefully, uh, we [01:14:00] just educated. I know a lot of my followers are here in Northeast Florida. We're hopefully going to expand that, but, um, uh, you know, insurance, insurance, we've got to be on top of an educating our, our buyers and sellers, uh, doing in this look back period is definitely one of the many factors that, uh, um, that we need to adjust in our insurance.

Tracy Hayes: So. 

Cyndee Haydon: Absolutely. No, it's a looming time bomb. And like I said, I don't, I don't want to be there again. Like you asked me, I care because I want people to be able to be safe in their homes, right? I want them to be able to live there. And, uh, and so these things that threaten it become important to me to try to make sure that we're at least educating people to make smart decisions, whatever's right for them.

Tracy Hayes: A hundred percent. 

Cyndee Haydon: Thank you. Thank 

Tracy Hayes: you, Cindy. You have a super day. Talk to you soon. All right. Bye bye