Cindy Browning: Benefits of Using a Expert Property Management Company

REE #258 Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Cindy Browning: My biggest thing is. We're always gonna fall short. That just, you know, we're humans. Things happen, but we're always gonna make it right. And that to me is our biggest—we may mess up, we may miss something, but we are always make it right to the tenants and to the owners.

Hey, welcome back to the Real Estate Excellence Podcast. Today's guest, a Jacksonville native whose real estate journey began over a decade ago with a clear mission to help people through tough situations and bring life back to neighborhoods in need, from flipping distressed properties with heart...

[00:01:05] Tracy Hayes: Through her company, Mac Home Development, to now leading one of Northeast Florida’s premier property management firms, Round Table Property Management, she's always put people before profits. She's not just home, she's elevating the industry, bringing...

[00:01:20] unmatched passion, integrity, and innovation to everything she touches.
As a CEO, investor, property manager, and mom, she's a true powerhouse in the local market. Let's welcome Cindy Browning to the show.

[00:01:32] Cindy Browning: Hello.

[00:01:32] Tracy Hayes: Good morning. I'm glad you made it over today.

[00:01:35] Cindy Browning: Yes, thank you for having me.

[00:01:36] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, we've been on a little bit of a delay. I'm glad Aaron reached out too, 'cause I know I originally wanted to get you on a while back, but, I think this is episode 258.
Alright, there we go. Lucky number. Yeah. So, what I want to get out—and I kind of put in the streaming on Facebook, kind of put out as the title—is really dig in, you know, your mindset on property management.

We have a lot of investors, you know, of course we're in Florida, so we've got, whether it's vacation rentals or just, you know, your standard yearly rental—that’s someone who just doesn't own a home or whatever the situation is.
I'm sure we've got a lot of people who are moving in who wanna rent first too, find out what these neighborhoods are all about.

[00:02:40] But, you know, your mindset on that. I know you took over there, you know, just short of three years. What are some of the things that you felt were needed and some changes you did there and, and what you're developing?
And then, why is property—the biggest question that everyone has or needs to be convinced of—I don't even know how to really describe it, but property management makes life so much easier for you.
You know, especially, you know, managing one property...

[00:02:40] might be okay. Yeah. But we start getting three or four...
Yeah, you got, you probably wanna bring a professional.

[00:02:44] Cindy Browning: Yep. Yeah. Nightmare situations happen. Yeah.

[00:02:47] Tracy Hayes: So kick us off. Tell us a little bit of your background before getting into real estate in general. I think it was what—if I saw or remember on your—yeah, tell us a little bit about Cindy. You went to First High School?

[00:02:58] Cindy Browning: Yep.

[00:02:59] Tracy Hayes: Tell us about growing up here and what actually did you envision yourself doing as a young person?

[00:03:02] Cindy Browning: So I had the plan to do sports marketing. I love sports—esports. So that was my goal, was to do, you know, go to college and do sports marketing. I did not end up going to college. I got pregnant at 18 and had a baby.
So, once I had her, my sister was like, "You cannot—like, you can't bartend. Like you're gonna have to do something. Like you have to be there for your kid."
I was like, "Great."
So she actually got me in the business, and I got my real estate license in 2011 and I was working under a broker just kind of as an assistant, doing things like that.

[00:03:37] Tracy Hayes: Was your sister in the business?

[00:03:38] Cindy Browning: Yes. She actually owned a property management company years ago.

[00:03:42] Tracy Hayes: Okay.

[00:03:42] Cindy Browning: So she was already in it. She was like, "Yeah, you need to do it."
And then I realized, I was like, I don't—I don't like this. Like, it's not for me. Like, it just—come to find out I just wasn't with the right people.
So I ended up partnering with somebody else and we started houses for investors. We did that for, I wanna say three...

[00:04:00] years, just doing theirs. And then I wanted to break away and create my own company and start flipping my own houses. So that's when I opened Mac Home Development, and started renovating and flipping houses for myself.

[00:04:10] Tracy Hayes: You said something there a moment I want to catch, 'cause I know we have a lot of real estate agents that listen to the show.
You were with the wrong people.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: Because at that time you were just doing residential real estate?

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: And the importance—and I know you're over at Round Table, which is, you know, you're Round Table Property Management now, but Round Table, you guys are in the same building.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: You bump elbows all the time. The importance...

[00:04:36] Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: And you as a young realtor at that time—the importance of choosing the right brokerage.

[00:04:36] Cindy Browning: It was to kick off. Yeah. It was one of those things that—I mean, I was pretty much an assistant at that point.
People were making me hold open houses. I was just kind of doing like the grunt work and I was like, "This is real estate? This isn't for me."

[00:04:48] Tracy Hayes: You didn't really feel they were giving you mentorship, right?

Cindy Browning: Nothing.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah, no. It was just...

[00:04:51] Cindy Browning: More of like, things they didn't want to do—like, "Here, you do 'em."
And I didn't know any better. I was only, you know, 19 at the time, just getting my feet wet. But, I mean, I had a breakdown one day. I cried and I was like, "I don't want to do this. Like, this is not fun. This is not enjoyable."
And then when my sister, you know, helped me meet somebody else, that was when it was like, "This is what it's supposed to be about. Like, this is the fun. This is the nitty gritty. Like, this is the stuff I like."
But it took, you know, going to—you don't know what you don't know.

[00:05:20] Right. You know, being at one place and then going to another where you're like, "Oh wow, okay. This is what it's supposed to be like."
Yeah. And it is really important. You have to have that support. You have to have people who have your back. Otherwise you won't be successful.

[00:05:29] Tracy Hayes: Well, just to give Howard a little commercial over there—you see what's going on over there?

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: I have respect for their business because Howard stays out in front...

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: ...of—and consistently adding, always adding value to his agents. And what you see over there—if you started at Round Table, you think you might be on a different path today?

[00:05:49] Cindy Browning: Absolutely. I mean, he's always on top of it. Any law that comes out, any new paperwork. Any—anything.

[00:06:00] And I mean, he's constantly training our agents on coming up and how to be ahead of the game. And I 100% think that if I started there, I probably, you know, things would've been different. But again, you know, it is what it is.
But I hung my license, I wanna say probably five or six years ago, with Round Table.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: I've learned so much, and just being around him on a daily basis—like, he is a wealth of knowledge.

[00:06:17] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. It's so important for the broker to continue adding value.
And like you said, you know, what I like—'cause I see his little videos, his little reels that he puts out—just working through the, working through our challenges.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: Which is, you know, one of the things you put in your bio. You like helping through tough times.
He's doing that constantly and helping people through some of these tough real estate transactions.

[00:06:40] And some of 'em are not always, always tough—it's just like a puzzle you gotta put together.

Cindy Browning: 100%. Yeah. And all the new paperwork and all new laws and all—like, it's something that if you don't really pay attention to, you're gonna miss out on something. Well, now you're probably not getting paid or, you know?

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: It's just so much. But he just stays on top of it to make sure all the agents know what they're doing.

[00:06:53] Tracy Hayes: Alright, so, flipping some homes. What kind of led you into that arena—the flip? You saw an opportunity or kind of saw your first one and dove into it and said, "Oh my God, I like this." What—how’d you get into that?

[00:07:06] Cindy Browning: So the person that my sister ended up getting me to kind of work with, he was already buying houses for investors.
And once I started doing that, I was like, "This is really fun. Like, this is what I like."
You could be creative with it, you know, there's always issues that come up, but problem solving, which is my favorite thing.
And so I really dove in and I was like, "I love this." So we were buying houses off the...

Cindy Browning: ...and everything.
I've seen some of the worst, I've seen some of the best houses.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Cindy Browning: But it was, you know, I did that for years and then was like, I just wanna do it for myself.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Cindy Browning: And that's when we kind of split and I opened my company and flipped houses and did great.

[00:07:47] Tracy Hayes: Well, so with that experience of doing that—because you were doing that for several years before you actually got into property management—

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: —because I think there’s a connection between, you know, to see Round Table having their own property management company as well as being a residential real estate [firm] go hand in hand. Because you're out and you have this eye for these opportunities.
'Cause I imagine there is—the agents over there have people who are looking for properties of opportunity—and just kind of bridge that gap for us of what you learned in your house flipping and how you actually look at a house today from a standpoint of saying, “Oh, this could be a good rental,” or, “This…” you know, your creativity—how does that actually help you today?
And then obviously it comforts all of Round Table's services from property management as well as the residential real estate.

[00:08:39] Cindy Browning: It definitely helps. I mean, especially if we have—let's say a tenant ruins a house or something like that—I can go in and say, “Alright, I know it’s gonna cost about this much,” before we even get a bid from a vendor.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: So it’s helpful in that. Also, when repairs come up, you know, I'll be able to tell an owner, “Hey look, I am reading this—it’s gonna be a new AC. That’s gonna cost you, you know, X, Y, Z.”

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: So that's extremely helpful on this side. It’s helpful when agents send, you know, owners our way—that when I go in the property, I can look at it and be like, “Look, this is, you know, sell-ready.”
Like, I—you just need to go that route.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: If the numbers make sense for you, then I can go in and look at it and go, “Well, I think this would make a really good rental,” if, again, the numbers make sense for you.

[00:09:20] So my whole thing is I just wanna make sure the owners are doing whatever works for them. So that’s really my goal, is just—I can go in and, “Yeah, you need to do that, and paint this,” or whatever to get the value up.
But, you know, at the end of the day, we really are people over profit, so...

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: We just want to make sure everybody is doing what makes sense for their family.

[00:09:40] Tracy Hayes: How is that—because you come across with a lot of confidence, at least I can imagine when you're—'cause of your experience—

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: And when you're having that conversation with that landlord, like, “Hey, yeah, that person's been in there three, four years. We need to come in—like, we need new carpet, we need AC,” whatever it is—that industry you’ve been in and doing those things, that you're able to come in like you just rattled off there with confidence in your presentation to them that you know what you're talking about.

[00:10:09] Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:10:11] Cindy Browning: And I mean, that is one thing. I’m very confident when it comes to renovations. Obviously, the numbers have gotten a little different with...

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: You know, vendors getting expensive, you know, materials getting more expensive. So, those are off sometimes, you know, 'cause prices are fluctuating every day...

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Cindy Browning: ...with that. But pretty close to being able to give a pretty solid bid if I walk in a house.

[00:10:32] Tracy Hayes: How often—and this is just a question that just popped up. So there might be none, I don’t know what the—but I would imagine, well if an agent's...

[00:10:40] ...listening to this from Round Table and not using you as a resource to come to you and say, “Hey, I've got this house. It's a little bit below grade. We need to bring it to speed. Can you go put an eye on it? What would it take to get it up to that sellable level—"

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: “—or more attractive level? What little things could I do?” Have they kind of pulled on that resource from you?

[00:11:02] Cindy Browning: Yeah, we have several agents who will come in—especially the Mac Home Development background. Even if they have sellers who are, like, they're trying to figure if they wanna sell, if they wanna rent, if they wanna do this, “Can you, you know, go and take a look at it to see how much it would cost to put, you know, work into it to then sell?” Or, “What do you think it would cost to make it rent-ready?”

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: So they definitely lean on me for information like that.

[00:11:24] Tracy Hayes: And, you know, again—another advertisement for Round Table—but I just love what Howard's doing over there.
And for agents that are out there right now—and we know agents are moving around brokerages or brokerages—you know, you should—Howard should always be on your short list as someone to talk to as far as, you know, what brokerage to go [to].

But to have a property management company in-house—literally right there, neighboring offices—

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: You know, 'cause I would imagine agents get calls—someone, “Hey, I'm looking for an investment property.”

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: You've got—you've probably got landlords that are like, “You know, I'm tired of being a landlord. I'm ready to sell.”

[00:12:00] And you've got inventory or recommendations that, yeah, “Hey, I got this guy who might be looking to sell this in a few months.”

[00:12:06] Cindy Browning: Yep. And I mean, we get—they'll send me listings all the time. “Hey, can you just do some numbers for my owner? They're still up in the air what they wanna do.”
And I'll run those all day. I mean, it’s just—they send me the listing, “What do you think this would rent for?” I give 'em all the information. Now the owner has it and they can make their decision.

[00:12:21] Tracy Hayes: It just—it really helps create a conversation.
'Cause I know one of the things—you know, communication is one of the things that Aaron was bragging about you on—but when you offer those resources...
For an agent looking to be part of something, refer you, you know, their investors who may wanna buy and then obviously turn 'em over to the property management side—the constant flow of information back and forth is so valuable.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.
Yeah.

[00:12:48] It’s helpful to have everybody in the space, because they can literally send me something, I can put everything together, we can be on the same page. If things change, that’s fine.
But it is really helpful to have—I mean, they pop in my office every day.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: I'm more than happy to sit down with them if they're like, “Hey, I got so-and-so.” I'm more than happy to go meet with them. So, it is extremely helpful to have everything in-house. 'Cause I mean, I get owners who are like, “I'm done. I'm ready to sell.”
I'm like, “Well, here's one of our agents.” Like, I don't do that part anymore. And they take it and do it.

[00:13:17] Tracy Hayes: So when you have a lead to sell, does Howard take control...

[00:13:20] ...of that or he let you refer to the agent you wanna refer it to?

[00:13:22] Cindy Browning: We round-robin them.

[00:13:23] Tracy Hayes: Okay. Yeah. All right. I was gonna say the agent who was feeding me should be the agent that would be fed back. So...

[00:13:30] Cindy Browning: We do that if it’s from a referral agent.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: We always go back to them. We’ll say, “Hey, we saw—” and I keep track. I have a whole spreadsheet and I’ll be like, “Hey, I saw that...”

Tracy Hayes: Who’s done what?

Cindy Browning: Yeah. “This person helped you buy this property. You know, please go back to them, work with them, whatever.”
Now if for some reason something wonky happened—yeah, whatever—then we would round-robin it out. But I keep a spreadsheet of all my agents, where they came from, and I’ll be like, “Hey, go back to them. If anything happens, come back to me, we’ll figure it out.”
But it always goes back to the agents.

[00:13:59] Tracy Hayes: Alright.
So, I want to dig into your ideology. You come across as a very direct person.

Cindy Browning: Right. Okay.

Tracy Hayes: And it’s funny, you’re from Jacksonville. Where are your parents from?

[00:14:08] Cindy Browning: Jacksonville.

Tracy Hayes: Are they really?

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: Okay.

Cindy Browning: ...auction block. We were buying foreclosure, short sales, all—you know, anything.

[00:14:10] Tracy Hayes: I'm from New York. People say I’m direct—say it’s 'cause I’m a New Yorker.
But hey. Oh. But they come to you to run the property management company, however that arises.
You evaluate the playing field there, Chad—what are some initial things that you thought right away you could make impact on?

[00:14:30] Cindy Browning: So when I took over, there were, you know, just some things that needed to be cleaned up, pretty much.
One of our big things is communication. That’s all...

[00:14:40] Tenants, owners, vendors—anybody wants is just to be communicated with.
So that was just the number one thing of—I mean, we are extremely transparent. You get an email if there’s a work order, you get an email when the vendor’s assigned, you get an email when there’s an invoice—like, everything is communicated just so you can be in the loop.

[00:14:58] Tracy Hayes: Is there special software for a property manager for that?

[00:15:00] Cindy Browning: Yep. Yep.

[00:15:00] Tracy Hayes: Yeah?

[00:15:01] Cindy Browning: So we have software set up, we have the people in the background who do everything. But that was just one thing that I came in and I saw that—I was like, that has to change.
That’s all people wanna do is feel heard.

[00:15:18] Tracy Hayes: Right.
Yeah. The under-communication is what you find out later and you lose business 'cause of that. You generally don’t lose business 'cause you over-communicate.

[00:15:27] Cindy Browning: No, I just think...

[00:15:28] Tracy Hayes: People are like, “Oh my...

[00:15:28] Cindy Browning: ...my goodness, there’s a lot of emails.”
I’m like, “Turn 'em off.”

[00:15:31] Tracy Hayes: So I'm just imagining this software—a property management company—and it's sending out the alerts.
So you probably put in there, you know, obviously the vendor and their information, their contact, email, their phone number.
The landlord's information is going in there. So it's set up to trigger those emails, text messages to those certain people based on whatever—

[00:16:00] You know, if they needed something fixed, let them know, “Hey, landlord, so-and-so's gonna be out there Monday morning at 10 o'clock.”

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: And then they’re getting some other alert that, hey, it’s finished and completed?

[00:16:08] Cindy Browning: A hundred percent. And that’s—the software does it.
Once we assign it, it triggers, trigger, trigger. But everybody can see what’s going on.
They have a portal that’s open 24 hours, they can see anything that they need to see. So, the software’s really set up.

[00:16:23] Tracy Hayes: Did you feel that it wasn’t being utilized? Or is this new software that you suggested to bring in when you got there?

[00:16:29] Cindy Browning: No. So we were already using it.
It’s a very, very powerful tool. I still, years later, have not figured out all the ins and outs of it.

Tracy Hayes: You wanna try?

Cindy Browning: Yeah. I still haven’t figured all the ins and outs of it yet perfectly. But it’s just so intricate that it can do so much, and it’s a very powerful tool.
We just made it better.

[00:16:47] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.
No, and I imagine like the real estate agents have their CRMs and stuff—

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: There’s so many things it can do and it can be overwhelming.
But if you are on it, you take the time at least to learn the things—which obviously, communication, you felt was one way to make an immediate impact—

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: —on the service that was being... Now was that just your vision, that you felt that there wasn’t enough communication based on an evaluation, I assume, you did? Or was it based on some—maybe some complaints and so forth that were coming across?

[00:17:19] Cindy Browning: It’s a...

[00:17:20] Mix. I mean, in my other business, that—that’s like huge to me.
Like, I just am one of those people. Like, just communicate one way or the other. If you don’t even have an answer, that’s okay—just be honest: “I don’t have an answer yet, but I’m on it.”
And so that was just—it was across the board.
There were some, you know, mixed reviews about no communication, not able to have communication, things like that.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: And then it was just my need to want to communicate all the time, to make sure everybody’s on the same page.
That’s how problems get mitigated. We don’t have, you know, bigger issues.
So that was just something—when I saw it, I was like, we’re gonna utilize that as much as possible.

[00:17:52] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.
Well, you know, when you’re working as a team—whether it’s a ball club or in your case a property manager, a landlord, vendors—you’re a team.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: Trying to, you know, work the project. And you can divert or avoid errors because you’re communicating.

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: “Oh, you said Monday? I thought we talked about Tuesday.”

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: And you go and get it fixed, right?

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: I think a lot of people don’t give that enough value.
Right? Just by talking out loud, basically, is what you’re doing. And everybody—everybody on the team is all on the same page.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: And if someone’s off, they can quickly get back on or flip the page—whatever.

[00:18:30] Cindy Browning: Yeah. And that’s why everything’s in writing.
CYA is probably my tagline, because I’m like—even if I talk to an owner and they’re like, “Yeah, prove it,” I’m like, “Nope, send me an...

[00:18:40] ...email.” Like, I want it in writing that we had this conversation.
Everything’s in writing. Keep it. We don’t delete it. It goes into a file. Everything is just tracked.

[00:18:49] Tracy Hayes: Alright. Now how many—how many people are you managing there?
Do you have a small team or is it just you?

[00:18:54] Cindy Browning: Nope, we have a team.
We have a property manager. We have a maintenance relations—I’ll call him. He deals with the invoices, the vendors.
We have two admin, marketing director, brokers, 500 vendors. So we got people everywhere.

[00:19:07] Tracy Hayes: So at Round Table, it sounds like you have about five, six people?

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: Okay. Alright. So I imagine, you know—obviously a change of management—you come in there, you might have...
Some people might have still been there. I don’t know—maybe did you bring in some new people?

[00:19:21] Cindy Browning: Yes. Mm-hmm.
So we brought in two new people who work with me closely, and then our admins have been there. And then obviously a marketing...

[00:19:28] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. So I would imagine probably one of the bigger pieces of being a property manager is—you said that—what did you call that position that deals with the service providers?

[00:19:38] Cindy Browning: Oh, the maintenance relations.

Tracy Hayes: The maintenance?

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: Maintenance. That’s like a huge...

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: ...piece of your puzzle.
Because you could make or break your business as a property manager—

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: —if the communication’s not well with them, you don’t have good service providers and so forth.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: So did you kind of mold that into Cindy’s way of doing things?

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: Tell us a little bit about that—that piece.

[00:20:00] Cindy Browning: Yeah. I mean, his only job is maintenance, work orders, invoices. That’s it. And that’s—I want him to focus on that.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: Because I would say one of our—and maybe for any property management company—maintenance and repairs are like our biggest issues.
You know, people want it done an hour ago.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Cindy Browning: You know, they see one outlet and they’re like, “Well, you should have been there yesterday and knew about it,” you know?
People really want things done, and they get upset if it’s not. And understandably.

[00:20:41] Cindy Browning: So that is his role. He literally goes through the work orders, and every day he has to call and follow up. Call, follow up.
“When are you getting out there?” Let the owners know. Let the tenants know. That is all he does. He doesn’t do anything else.
And yeah, I created that position. He’s actually, I think, been with us for about six months because I kept seeing gaps that I was like, “Where am I missing something?”
And I was like, “Oh—him.”
Yeah, so he’s been doing great. That’s all he does. He doesn’t focus on anything else.

[00:20:51] Tracy Hayes: Because I mean, that’s really—I mean, you work so hard to bring on a new landlord.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: And, you know, I imagine you got renters that are applying with you too, and you're matching to homes or apartments or whatever you have available, and they’re looking back at you.

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: So the toilet doesn’t work in the middle of the night or whatever the situation is—they’re calling you. And it’s, how fast are you getting back out there?

Cindy Browning: Yep.

[00:21:20] Tracy Hayes: And that’s either—you know, maybe the renter’s not necessarily talking to the landlord, but when people are moving out and you’re seeing turnover, the landlord’s like, “Why is my place turning over? Why is it...”
It could be their place—

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: You know, maybe it’s not a great location or something. But the other thing is the landlord’s gonna look at you going, “Why are they turning over? Are they not having a good experience?”

[00:21:40] Cindy Browning: Yep. And I talked to a tenant yesterday who—I was just explaining like how her move-out’s gonna work and, you know, all like pro-rate and everything.
And she literally in the middle of the conversation said, “I want to stop you real quick. I have rented from other companies and this has been the best experience I’ve ever had.”
She said, “I had one work order, you had people out the next day.” She said, “You’ve communicated everything.”
She goes, “I’m putting a five-star review.” She’s like, “I’ve rented from other companies and this has been a dream.”
So it, you know—we obviously get the bad ones too. It happens. It’s life.
But, you know, our goal is to get the work orders knocked out.
My people know that the work order, unless it’s something crazy, you know, we have to re-pipe or something like that, it has to be knocked out within three days. Done.

[00:22:24] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.
Well, you know, I think the stereotypical average—whatever, however you want to call it—the mainstream renter doesn’t have expendable cash savings, typically.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: And, you know, maybe they’re a single mom, dad, and they’re running all over the—

[00:22:40] —place, and something’s not working. It just adds stress to their life.
And when you’re there like, “Hey, I’m...” you know, as soon as reasonably possible, you’re out there the next morning, next day—whatever it is—the problem... and you're fixing it, it just takes a lot of weight off them.

[00:22:53] Cindy Browning: It does. I mean, people do get upset about it—and it’s understandable.
If you’ve had a long day, kids are crazy, your boss is a jerk, you get home, your AC’s not working and it’s 85 degrees in Florida, it’s gonna make people upset.

Tracy Hayes: Yes.

Cindy Browning: It’s—you know, there’s nothing we could have done about it. We didn’t know about it.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Cindy Browning: But I totally get it and I have empathy for that.
And I’ve taught my people like, “Hey, we have to have empathy. Just let ‘em know we’re getting somebody out there.”
And most of our vendors will be there same day if it’s a reasonable time or next day—and we’ll get it taken care of.

[00:23:21] Tracy Hayes: Well, that’s also the—you know, your credibility with the vendors.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: Obviously, they’re probably gonna take your call over an average homeowner’s call a lot of times.
Obviously you’re giving them repeat business, they’re treating you guys—and you treat them great—and that relationship really is important.

[00:23:38] Cindy Browning: Yeah. And I brought a bunch of my vendors that I’ve used for 13 years over to the property management company.
So my plumbers, my electricians, my AC person—

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: My remediation person—I brought those people with me. And I was like, “Hey, you guys wanna do property management stuff?” And they’re like, “Okay.”
But I’ve worked with them for so long, so we have that working relationship that it was easy just to plug them into the system and be like, “You’re gonna start getting work orders.”
And that has been tremendous 'cause it’s all my people that I know.

[00:24:06] Tracy Hayes: This is a good tip for agents that might be working here.
'Cause one of the things we talk about when I’m interviewing real estate agents—the top agents have a Rolodex of these type of people.

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: What are some of the things that you do to keep that relationship strong? So that you know they’re gonna answer the phone when you call?

[00:24:23] Cindy Browning: Pay them on time.
It is the biggest thing they want. I mean—and I’ve seen in situations, I’ve talked to some of my vendors, they’re like, “Gosh, they only pay out on this day every single month. So you’re waiting a whole 30 days.”
No. Like, I’m gonna make sure the money is in there—especially if it’s a big repair.
The owner’s gonna have to send me that money first. Or if I have money in the account for ‘em—'cause we have reserves—I’m gonna pay ‘em.
You know, I pay once a week. So they’re getting paid at least within seven days. You know, the invoices are gonna be taken care of.
And that’s the biggest thing—they do a job, they want to get paid.

[00:24:52] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:24:53] Cindy Browning: And so that’s—they...

[00:24:54] Tracy Hayes: They got payroll to make, they got whatever.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:24:56] Cindy Browning: So yeah. Once a week, they all get paid.

[00:24:58] Tracy Hayes: Yep.
Great advice there.
Systems—you’ve come in, I imagine there was a way of doing things before you came in and took over.
What are some of the systems that you’ve put in place?
And if you could also, in that question—'cause I think things change over time as we, as things evolve—you know, maybe your vendor changes out, maybe...
But the systems that...

[00:25:20] ...you’ve brought in, that you’ve seen have really had a great return on investment.
And I think a lot of times the return on investment is just increased positive reviews...

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: ...and so forth. Talk about the systems you have there.

[00:25:32] Cindy Browning: So when I came in, I had to literally from scratch create systems and processes.
So I sat down and created a 15-page doc of how everything works, all the questions we get—FAQs. And this is in a Google Doc that we’re constantly changing.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: So if I—every day I’m like, “Oh, didn’t think to put that in there,” and change it. Because you never know what’s gonna come up.
So, I will say the biggest thing for systems is creating a workflow for absolutely everything.
And I had to do it all myself the first time just to make sure I knew what it looked like, how I wanted it done.
But that’s the biggest thing—just sit down, take the time and figure out, “Alright, step one is this, then that goes to this...”

[00:26:16] “...and that goes to that.”
And I have a whole chart of everything that needs to happen, so nothing is skipped.

[00:26:16] Tracy Hayes: Give me an example of how—that flow chart you’re talking about—something, I don’t know, whatever service or something, whatever—you know, the many different things that a property manager does.
But like, give me what an example of something, whether it started here—how it goes through your flow chart. How did you create that? What makes it important to prioritize whatever it is?

[00:26:39] Cindy Browning: Yeah. So we’ll go with work orders.

Tracy Hayes: Okay.

Cindy Browning: So a work order comes in from a tenant. We immediately go in and we assign it to whatever that vendor is. So let’s say the AC went out.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: We’re gonna assign it. We’re then gonna notify the owner via email—attach the work order of what’s going on.
We’re gonna immediately text or email the tenant—“Here’s your vendor, they’re gonna be out there, they have all your contact information.”
We’re then going to set up an automatic reply within one business day to the vendor to make sure they’re scheduled, they’re good.
We’re gonna reach out to the tenant, let them know, “Hey, this is what’s going on.”

[00:27:08] Tracy Hayes: You’re not leaving it out there for them to—

Cindy Browning: Yes.

Tracy Hayes: —for everybody just to take care of whatever.

[00:27:10] Cindy Browning: Yeah. So then it just keeps going all the way down.
Then once the work is completed, he has to make sure he has the invoice. He uploads the invoice, he then sends that to the owner just so they’re—you know, aware.
We’re gonna pay it for them, but just so we’re on the same page.
He’s gonna, you know, post it, we’re gonna close it out. That work order is done.
He’s then gonna go back to the tenant—“Hey, does everything look good? You happy?”
Yep. We’re done.

[00:27:32] Tracy Hayes: Love it. Love it.
I can only imagine—just statistically—there might be a couple other companies in town that do that.
But really, the average property management probably doesn’t have something as detailed as that because it takes a lot.
Well one—it takes, I think, you have a project management mindset. And you...

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:55] Tracy Hayes: ...project-managed a whole 15-page document.

[00:27:55] Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: An average person doesn’t have that ability.

[00:27:57] Cindy Browning: No. And it took—I mean, like I said, I did...

[00:28:00] ...it from scratch.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Cindy Browning: There was nothing there. But I knew that I wanted to do it my way and how it’s going to flow.
Because I don’t like conflict. And in property, unfortunately, we have to deal with that.
So my whole goal is: reduce, minimize, minimize, minimize conflict, reduce liability, and reduce anger.
That’s all I want to do.
So when I created that, I was just like, “How can we be as efficient as possible?”
Because I have one workflow for move-in, move-out, mid-month inspections—I have one for everything.

[00:28:26] Tracy Hayes: Right.
No, it’s so important to be able to, in your mind, say, “Okay, we have an HVAC problem. What needs to happen? Who needs to be notified?”
And you have to think all those things and evolve that process.
And I think a lot of the average—
Again, I don’t know...

[00:28:59] Tracy Hayes: ...why—getting really bad at using that phrase—but the typical person doesn't think of,
“Hey, next morning we're following up with that vendor.”

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: “Did you schedule? Do we have confirmation? What time is your guy gonna be there?”

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: And they would just let it flow, then they would blame them and say—and when someone complained—
“Hey, they haven't showed up yet.”
“Oh.”
And then now you're calling and you're being reactive versus proactive.

Cindy Browning: Yep. Yep.

Tracy Hayes: ’Cause like you said, you're trying to minimize conflict.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: You know there's gonna be some—you can only...

Cindy Browning: Yep.

[00:29:12] ...minimize it.

Tracy Hayes: Always tell people you can only minimize it.

[00:29:12] Cindy Browning: Yep.
Yeah, and that's why I hired that person. And that is his only job.

[00:29:16] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:29:16] Cindy Browning: Just make sure everything needs to go where it’s going.
Make sure we’re getting, you know, these work orders that are bigger than the norm approved in writing.
Make sure everybody’s on the same page.
And that’s literally—I mean, I will say 99% of our problems get mitigated because of work orders and just making sure we’re following that chart over and over and over again.

[00:29:36] Tracy Hayes: How often do you meet with your team to kind of review some of these systems to see if they need to be tweaked?

[00:29:41] Cindy Browning: Once a week. So we—

Tracy Hayes: Oh, wow. That’s a lot.

Cindy Browning: Once a week we make sure that we’re all on the same page.
I created—and that was a whole project itself—a whole automation for our move-ins and our renewals.
That took me a really long time, but I figured out how to do it.
And if this is “yes,” it automatically switches it to this, and then if it’s “no,” it automatically moves it to a different category.
That took me way too long.
But we meet every week to make sure like they’re seeing, you know, what they’re seeing—
“Hey, is everything working on your side?”
“Do you see changes that need to be made?”
“Have we had anybody say they didn’t like this or that?”
So we meet once a week to go over that.
We’re in a Google Chat all day, every day—just if there’s anything, just “Yep, get that, do that.”
So I would say in constant communication.

[00:30:24] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.
Well, I mean, some things work, some things don’t always work for every situation.
Real estate is—so whether you’re a retail real estate agent or in property management—you might not see a problem.
There might be a problem out there right now that you haven’t seen in the last three years—

[00:30:40] —and it’s gonna come up tomorrow.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: And you—

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: So you have the workflow for it. Now, obviously, you have workflows for a lot of other things.
Most likely, you could plug in most—

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: —any other situation into that workflow and it’d probably work.
But maybe at the end of the week you go, “You know what, next time we have that situation, we should do it this way.”

[00:30:59] Cindy Browning: Yep.

[00:31:00] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:31:00] Cindy Browning: And I’m—my big thing for—I love problem-solving.
If there’s a problem, great. There’s a solution.
And that’s why I like it. We can figure it out.
And we’ll get some crazy ones. I mean, we had a tenant who—he was taking a shower and passed out and hit his head.
And a week later I get a phone call saying, “Hey, I showed back up at the house and it’s full of mold.”
And I was like, “What do you mean? What happened?”

So I immediately go out to the house, and he has a bandage on, and I was like, “What?”
And he was like, “I don’t know. But I had the AC off. The fire department came and took me away. My daughter found me.”
And he hit his head so hard that it broke a pipe behind the wall.

[00:31:34] Tracy Hayes: Oh my goodness.

[00:31:35] Cindy Browning: So it had been leaking for seven days with no AC.
So, I mean, mold up to here. Bathroom, everything’s ruined.
And I was like, “Oh my goodness.”
So of course—immediately—owner, “You need to get insurance.” Like, this is a problem.
So we get them and the insurance company goes out there, and they’re like, “No, we’re gonna deny this.
It’s, you know, it’s not a sudden loss.”
Their favorite word—“sudden loss.”
And I was like, “Okay, hold on.”

[00:32:00] So I called the fire department. I was like, “I need a record of this address. You can redact everything from it. I just need a date and that you were there—the time.”

[00:32:04] Tracy Hayes: A recall. Mm-hmm.

[00:32:05] Cindy Browning: For $1 they sent me that paper.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: And I was able to give that to the insurance, and they took care of the whole claim.
So it was one of the crazier things that I saw that I was not expecting, obviously.

And I don’t do insurance. I think that was my first insurance claim I ever had to do.
But it worked perfectly just because in my mind it was like, “Okay, hold on.
They’re obviously gonna want to deny this—that’s, you know, they don’t wanna pay for it.
How can I prove that, you know, this actually was an accident and that he was hurt?”
That one paper—insurance paid for everything.

[00:32:35] Tracy Hayes: Cool.
Let’s talk about that part of it. I mean, do you require the renters to get their own insurance?
How does that work in the investor/landlord world and, obviously, then bringing in a property manager?

[00:32:46] Cindy Browning: So owners have to have insurance.
I mean, it doesn’t matter—even if it’s paid off, I don’t care.
You have to have insurance, liability.
Renters don’t have to because most renter’s insurance only covers their items. It doesn’t cover the house per se.
So it’s strongly suggested that they get it, but it’s not required—
Unless it’s, you know, we have a million-dollar house.
Like of course, that one, we’re like, “No, you have to have insurance.”

[00:33:06] Tracy Hayes: So let’s just say you’re—because we have—my wife and I have some condos.
The renter—well, like you said, the guy fell in the—
I don’t know how he hit the wall so hard he actually—

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:20] Tracy Hayes: —busted a pipe. That’s just amazing.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: And he’s still alive?

Cindy Browning: Yeah, he’s still alive.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah. But overflowed the bathtub—I guess that’s probably—

Cindy Browning: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —and leaks down to the floor underneath.
Whose insurance is really covering that?
If someone had renter’s insurance, does that come in because they’re the one who left the water on? Or really, it’s the homeowner’s?

[00:33:36] Cindy Browning: It really depends on what that policy says.
So most renter’s insurance is just their items.
But that’s why owners need to have insurance on the property.
Because when you rent out your house, there’s always a risk.
I mean, that is just it.
You have random people living in your house.
If it’s a tenant issue and they have insurance, then obviously they can use it, whatever the case may be.
But most of the time, it’s the owners who end up doing their insurance claim.

[00:34:01] Tracy Hayes: Because the renter’s just getting some basic insurance policy just covering their things if the place was to burn down...

Cindy Browning: Right.

[00:34:11] Tracy Hayes: Versus if they actually caused a catastrophic issue and...

[00:34:11] Cindy Browning: Now, we can always charge ‘em for it.
Now, 99% of the time, we don’t—we won’t see that payment back.

[00:34:17] Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: But you can still charge ‘em for it.
I mean, most people don’t have $20,000 hanging around, you know, to fix something like that.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

[00:34:24] Cindy Browning: But you still charge ‘em for it.

[00:34:24] Tracy Hayes: Right.
From a landlord standpoint—as far as the insurance is concerned—what are recommendations you take, especially when you take on a new landlord into your portfolio?
What are—you know, obviously I’m sure you're reviewing their insurance and so forth for them—

[00:34:40] —that they have a landlord [policy], not their primary.
You might have been in their primary residence yesterday, but today it’s a rental property—making sure they’re upgrading.
Is there certain coverages or anything that you would, that you, uh...
You know, maybe have established as a baseline?

[00:34:56] Cindy Browning: So since it’s not my specialty, I don’t actually get into that with them because I don’t do insurance.

[00:34:56] Cindy Browning: I don't know much about insurance.
So I always tell 'em, I'm like, "Look, you need to call your insurance agent. Tell them your plan, that you're going to rent out the property, and make sure that you're covered."
I don't wanna get involved in that. Again, you could give me an insurance policy and I'd be, "Cool, that looks great"—and it could be awful. I don't know.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: So I always tell 'em, I'm like, just like a mortgage, I'd be like, "No, go talk to your mortgage [lender]."

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: "Make sure they're good with everything."
So, no—I always refer them back to their insurance agent. "You need to let them know your intent."

[00:35:26] Tracy Hayes: I would think it's a little different, like, than car insurance.
You know, you get some minimal coverage—someone gets hurt.
You don't necessarily have that, per se, in a house where you can really mix and match maybe your deductible.

Cindy Browning: Yeah, yeah.

Tracy Hayes: Right? Your deductible is a big part of how much you pay.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: You know, whether you raise or lower that.
The insurance itself is going to obviously want to cover the house—should the house burn down to the ground—

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: —they can rebuild the house.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: They're gonna put enough insurance on for that.
But I would imagine that we have a lot of people out there who may not be using a property management company, that hasn't reviewed their...

[00:36:00] ...insurance policy, that is still using a primary residence insurance policy and never upgraded it to that landlord [policy].

[00:36:09] Cindy Browning: Yeah.

[00:36:10] Tracy Hayes: What kind of liability are they putting themselves into?

[00:36:12] Cindy Browning: Pretty big liability.
Yeah, because—I mean, insurance—if something happens, if it does burn down and a renter's in there, and they changed their insurance [after the fact], and they find out—they could deny coverage.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Cindy Browning: So that's—I mean, I do put it on the owners. You know, it's not worth it.

Tracy Hayes: No.

Cindy Browning: Because at the end of the day, yes, it might be a higher deductible, it might be whatever.
But you have a burned-down house, and you’re not gonna want to pay, you know—

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: —$400,000 to rebuild the whole thing.

[00:36:37] Tracy Hayes: What is the most common situation where you are actually, you know—the bigger situations?
My guess would be water damage.

[00:36:46] Cindy Browning: Yeah, water damage is the biggest one that we have seen.
We had an eviction that we were doing—the girl, we don't know when she left.
We showed up there with the officers, you know, go in, pulled the washing machine out—it just went through the house.
She, you know, left the water running. So by the time we got there, we’re like, “Oh, there’s water everywhere.”
So water is probably the number one thing.
Knock on wood, we haven’t had fire, anything like that.
But since we’re in Florida, water and mold are two things that we constantly see, 'cause small leaks create mold.
You gotta tear everything out.
You gotta make sure it’s done correctly.
You gotta get the remediation company.
So that would be our biggest thing that we always see, is water damage.

[00:37:26] Tracy Hayes: As a management company—and maybe you have a long-term landlord, whether the same person's been in there or just you've been managing the property for years—
Do you do checkups? 'Cause those water lines to the washing machine, they should be changed out every few years.

[00:37:47] Cindy Browning: Yep. So one thing that I implemented when I took over was three inspections yearly.
So we have a third-party inspection company that goes in.
Now, it’s not a normal inspection where they’re on the roof and, you know, all of that.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: But they go in and they check things like that to make sure no leaks, there’s no issues.
So we do three of those a year. We do a move-in, we do a six-month, and we do a renewal or move-out.
So we’re constantly keeping track of these.
We give 'em to the owners, we upload it to their portal.
“Hey, this is what your property looks like, this is what’s going on.”
So that is definitely something that we started because I just want to make sure that we can keep eyes on it.
So if there is a small problem, we can fix it before it’s a big problem.

[00:38:25] Tracy Hayes: Right.
Well, minimizing conflict.

Cindy Browning: Yes.

Tracy Hayes: That’s what you’re doing.
And I think a lot of people will neglect that.
I think it talks about the first-class service that you’re providing to be doing those checks—because...

[00:38:40] ...the last thing you want to do is that water line breaks or whatever—washing machine line has been there for 10 years—all of a sudden they burst.

[00:38:48] Cindy Browning: Yep.

[00:38:48] Tracy Hayes: And that water runs for hours.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

[00:38:50] Tracy Hayes: And you come in and then—there’s a puddle in the house.
You’re facing flooring.
You’ve gotta relocate the renter.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: Oh, it’s just a nightmare.

[00:38:59] Cindy Browning: Yeah. And I’ve only had one or two owners balk at having [the inspection], because we only make 'em pay for the six-month.
But I’m like, “You have to understand that you would rather know now—six months into the lease—than a year later where that small thing that we could have seen is now this huge [thing], and it’s gonna cost you more money...

[00:39:18] Tracy Hayes: Than what the inspection costs.

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: Then your insurance policy’s going up—

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: —because you made an insurance claim, etc., etc.
Yeah, I don’t think—
We always called it in the business “stepping over a quarter to pick up a nickel.”

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: You are really missing out because you’re trying to save that penny.

Cindy Browning: Yes.

Tracy Hayes: A penny saved is... is a penny. That’s what it is.

Tracy Hayes: This is a good question here I’ve got—and since we’re on this kind of topic—many landlords are scared of being nickeled and dimed by their property managers.
How does your pricing structure—'cause I would imagine, like you said, this inspection—when you’re bringing on that new customer, you have, “These are the services I’m gonna provide, I’m gonna charge you this at these times,” and so forth.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: Tell us how you’ve structured that to make it, I guess, more landlord-friendly—
Obviously from a sales standpoint—but obviously people like “keep things simple, stupid” too.

[00:40:04] Cindy Browning: One thing that I will say—and I don’t know, I know a lot of property management companies do this, I’m not gonna say all, I don’t know that—
They upcharge on repairs.
So a vendor comes in and they take—you know—they charge 10% for, you know, having to...

[00:40:17] Tracy Hayes: Facilitate.

[00:40:18] Cindy Browning: Facilitate it.
We don’t upcharge repairs.
Whatever the vendor gives us, we’re giving them.
It’s not worth it to us. We want to make sure they’re doing a good job.
So that’s one way we keep our costs low is that we’re—you know—we’re not nickeling and diming on repairs.

We don’t have, like, a base where it’s like, “If we send somebody out there, it’s $300 no matter what.”
It doesn’t work like that.
Whatever they’re saying—if it’s 85 bucks, you gotta pay 85 bucks. Like, it is what it is.

All of our management agreements have everything written out.
There’s no gray area.
I mean, I get people who are like, “Why did I get charged?”
I’m like, “Please read page two, line E.”
Everything’s written out—like, again, very transparent.
You know what you’re paying.

[00:41:20] You know what your management fee is.
You know what your placement fee is.
You know what your renewal [fee is]. Everything is in there.

So again, just making sure it’s all in writing, all on the same page, and we don’t have any issues with people being surprised.

Again, I would say our biggest issues were repairs, but now that everybody’s in the loop—it’s not like when I make monthly payments, they’re like, “Why is $300 coming out?”
It’s like, “Well, you knew about that a month ago because we sent it to you.”

So just being transparent, all on the same page, is definitely—I would say—the way that we’ve fixed a lot of issues with that.

[00:41:25] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Yeah.
Well, you know, I really like—'cause I have seen a property management company that does mark it up.
And I often wonder, especially when there’s a—you know, the landlord’s not around town.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

[00:41:40] Tracy Hayes: You know, maybe they’re up north, wherever they’re at.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: They’re trusting you...

Cindy Browning: Yes.

Tracy Hayes: ...to do the things. And then you’re sending them repair bills for stuff that they don’t even know needed to be repaired.
But you told them it had to be repaired, so they trusted you, that you’re keeping an eye on their property.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: And when you’re not marking up the invoice, it just—it tells them that you are doing what needs to be done.

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: There’s no—you have no motivation to have services done on their property...

Cindy Browning: Yep.

[00:42:08] Tracy Hayes: ...because you’re not making any more money on it.

[00:42:08] Cindy Browning: Nope. And that’s—I will never upcharge for repairs.
It’s just—for me, it’s like—the vendor goes and does it, then that’s what you deserve to get.

Just because my person made a couple phone calls and did a couple things—we’re not gonna do that.
We want your business.
We want to, you know, keep you happy.
So whatever they’re giving, you’re gonna get.

[00:42:26] Tracy Hayes: If someone’s shopping property management companies—I imagine there’s some sort of, whatever, standardized fee based on the rent, whatever—
You have a bottom line that, “Hey, it costs us this much to watch your property, manage your property.”
Do you find yourself, when people are shopping, them telling you, “Hey, you’re the cheapest,” or, “We’re going with you,” “You’re middle of the road,” or maybe “You’re slightly more expensive”?

[00:42:51] Cindy Browning: I would say we’re middle of the road.
Yeah. I know other property management companies are a little higher than us.

[00:42:51] Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm. And I’ll have people who are like, “Well, you know, X, Y, Z told me that they would do it for [a] whatever percent”—way lower than ours. And I’d be like, “Okay. Go with them.”
Because I know what we provide.

[00:43:06] Tracy Hayes: I guarantee they’re marking up the invoices though.

Cindy Browning: Well—exactly.
I know what we provide. I know that, like, things are gonna be taken care of.
Like, I have my hand in everything. So like, that’s perfectly fine if you want to go the cheaper route.
But cheaper is not always better.
So I’m fine with that. And I’ve lost people because of that. You know, they want that—that cheap as they can get.
And I’m like, but that’s not what we’re trying to give here.

[00:43:25] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.
Well, the point I want to get across to anyone who’s listening is—if they are significantly less, you have to ask:
Are they marking up those invoices?

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: You’re probably not even asking that question. And they’re not gonna tell you—
’Cause a lot of property management companies do do that.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: Mark it up, whatever. And they’re gonna find things that are wrong with the place—
“Oh, this needs to be fixed. Oh, the AC needs to be checked three times this year,” and all this, you know, because it’s seven years old, whatever.
They’re gonna find reasons to put those guys in there because they’re making that 10, 15%—whatever it is there.
And I think that’s a really good question when shopping property management companies.
And I imagine that’s obviously something that you put out front: that we don’t mark that up.
The people who do mark them up don’t say anything. They don’t actually mention that part of it.

Let’s talk about your tenant placement—your process there.
I imagine you’ve created a system. Have you improved on the system over the last three years, or what do you think—where you’re at with that? And just how that whole process works for you?

[00:44:21] Cindy Browning: Yeah. So tenant placement—the only thing I really had to do with that one was just put it in a workflow of how it needs to go.
But just tenant placement, if anybody doesn’t know, is where we find the tenant, we background check, we screen them, we do the leases—all of that.
Then the owner self-manages.

[00:44:36] Tracy Hayes: You guys advertising that you are a property management [company]? Or are there people just coming to you saying, “Hey, I’m looking for a house”?
Is that what often happens?
How do you actually get that tenant?

[00:44:44] Cindy Browning: So we get all of our tenants through our marketing.
You know, it’s on our website, it’s on MLS, it’s on all the other websites, socials.

Tracy Hayes: Okay.

Cindy Browning: So yeah, for tenant placement we do the same type of marketing—professional photos.
We have a designated showing agent. You know, we put it all out there.
Then we get an application, we do all of our stuff.
And literally, pretty much, like—we do everything for the owner until like right before move-in.
And it’s like, “All right, here’s their information. I’m gonna send you the security deposit when they move in,” and you get to self-manage.
And it’s—I mean, it’s really easy.
I mean, I tell people, ’cause they’re like, “How hard is it?” I’m like, “It’s super quick.”

[00:45:17] Tracy Hayes: So, if I heard you correctly there, that “self-manage”—so you have some clients, landlords, that self-manage themselves but they use you for...

[00:45:26] Cindy Browning: Correct.

[00:45:26] Tracy Hayes: ...the finder.

[00:45:27] Cindy Browning: Yeah.
They don’t wanna deal with the phone calls.
They don’t wanna deal with the showings.
A lot of our owners don’t live here.
I mean, I have people in California, I have 'em in Hawaii, Germany.
So a lot of people don’t live here.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: So they go, “All right, well, I mean—I can self-manage, because if it’s just one thing or, you know, this or that...”
But in the initial of doing all the before stuff—

[00:45:47] Tracy Hayes: They’re not here to actually see the person that you got in front of.

Cindy Browning: Right.

Tracy Hayes: You can’t do it pulling credit, that sort of thing.
'Cause now I imagine, there’s a lot of compliance...

Cindy Browning: Yes.

[00:46:00] Tracy Hayes: ...involved there. That’s probably the biggest thing is when you’re—the clients is, you know—
Obviously, you’re not redlining, you’re not pulling people in certain ways, or showing certain houses and stuff.
There’s a huge amount of compliance there.
So when you are talking to a [landlord], or again—someone who may be listening to this—that piece of who you’re renting to is a liability.

[00:46:20] Cindy Browning: Yes.

[00:46:20] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:46:21] Cindy Browning: And I mean, in our tenant packages for owners—you know, we don’t let owners have too much say in how they screen the tenants,
If they pass our, you know, criteria that we have set in the system—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: —because of Fair Housing Law.
Like, HUD does not care. You can do a free complaint on HUD and they will investigate it.
And I’ve done case studies where property management companies have denied—or even owners have denied—because there were certain race, or they had too many kids, something of the sort that’s protected class.

[00:46:40] And they had to pay.
It’s not worth it. And it’s free for anybody to do.
So I tell owners, I’m like, “Unless it’s something where, like, maybe their credit score’s a little low or maybe I see something like this—I’ll involve 'em.
But I don’t go to them with that information of like, ‘Yes, they are married,’ ‘They have this,’ ‘They have that.’”
We just don’t do it.

[00:47:12] Tracy Hayes: Keeps the landlord separated...

[00:47:13] Cindy Browning: Yes.

[00:47:14] Tracy Hayes: ...from that—and their exposure.

[00:47:16] Cindy Browning: Yeah. And I’ve had people who have gotten very upset about that, but it is in the paperwork.
And it is to protect them.
Because all it takes is a tenant to go, “I bet they’re doing this,”—
Well now you have a lawsuit on your hands that I want nothing to be a part of.

[00:47:30] Tracy Hayes: Right. Right, right.
They could say the management company handled everything.

Cindy Browning: Exactly.

[00:47:35] Tracy Hayes: That’s exactly—“Go deal with them.”

Cindy Browning: Exactly.

[00:47:35] Tracy Hayes: Let’s talk about some of the little things, like you said.
Can the landlord—you know, in the state of Florida obviously—can they restrict pets, or no?
Is that something that—they say, “Hey, I’m gonna rent but I don’t allow pets”?

[00:47:49] Cindy Browning: Correct.
So you can say pets or no pets.
The only one you can’t is a service animal—

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: —or an ESA, which is your Emotional Support Animal.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Cindy Browning: And so I tell people—and I’ve had people who are like, “Absolutely no pets.”
And I said, “I can’t help you. I have a license. I have to follow the law.”
You, as a private owner, can decide what you want to do. But I can’t do that.
So if they come in with a service or an ESA—you have to do it.

[00:48:12] Tracy Hayes: I would imagine the only thing that restricts the dog size is maybe the HOA or condo association says, “Hey, we only allow dogs to a certain pound.”

[00:48:21] Cindy Browning: Yeah. So we have to do that.
We have to do that kind of background.
And so if we manage an HOA, we have to see their documents to see what it is.
'Cause we have one now that—they don’t allow pets at all in the community unless you live—like, you’re an owner.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: So it’s one of those where—we let people know, like, “Hey, we can’t do this because of HOA rules.”
But that’s stuff we have to read beforehand to get that information.

[00:48:45] Tracy Hayes: Is there anything else—that’s just kind of the average, the typical surface-level thing—is there anything else out there that... you know what, can landlords be restrictive of who they rent to when they’re using a property management company?
Because they can’t say, “I don’t allow a family,” they can’t say things like that.

[00:49:03] Cindy Browning: I mean, really the only thing is like—like I said, in our system we have criteria.
They have to have a certain credit score.
They have to make a certain amount of money.
They can’t have, you know, criminal background, evictions—things like that.
That’s really the only things that we can kind of go off of.
Everything else—

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: —is, you know, protected.
So I mean that’s—and I tell them, I’m like, “If they pass that background, unless I see something really wonky, they’ve done what they need to do, so there’s no reason not to approve them.”

[00:49:29] Tracy Hayes: Do you find some landlords get too attached to their property?

Cindy Browning: Yes.

Tracy Hayes: From the standpoint they want to kind of put some of these restrictions on—
It’s like, dude, do you want an investment property or not?

[00:49:39] Cindy Browning: My—my favorite one.
And I had to, like, really tame my face.
I was at a house. And she said, “I only want a good Christian family.”
And I was like, “Oh no...”
And I was trying to keep it together. And I was like, “We can’t do that.”
And she was like—

[00:49:40] Cindy Browning: No, I have to be. And I was like, “Can’t help you. I’m so sorry.”
Yeah. And it was like one of those—like I had to keep my face together of like, oh no, we can’t do that.
It doesn’t happen often, but when it does, I am like—

[00:50:05] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Well, so when you correct them, do they realize the situation or—I mean, what was like this lady’s... because I imagine you corrected her.

[00:50:12] Cindy Browning: Yeah. She did not care.

Tracy Hayes: They said, “Hey—”

[00:50:13] Cindy Browning: “I cannot restrict it.”
She just—she was set in her ways.
That she—I mean, she had, I would say, church stuff all over her house.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: I wasn’t shocked. I shouldn’t have been shocked.
She was gung-ho that that was what she was gonna get.
And I’m like, “All right, well—I can’t help you, 'cause I’m not asking anybody about their religion background.”

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Cindy Browning: Ever. Not gonna do it.
So I—I bowed out and said, “You know, it’s all yours. You can do it, but I can’t help you.”

[00:50:38] Tracy Hayes: Now, as an individual owner—versus using a property manager, just landlord directly to renter—
Can they? What’s the laws on restrictions like that?

[00:50:48] Cindy Browning: There are certain things that...
If you just have one house, it doesn’t qualify. I think you have to have like at least four or, you know, three in one little area.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

[00:51:00] Cindy Browning: There are certain things. But if you’re just a private one—

[00:51:00] Tracy Hayes: Just a one-on-one, you can do whatever you want. They don’t—
Yeah. No one’s really gonna butt in.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: Because that’s the—he said, she said—thing, and I can imagine, yeah.
I wanna dig into—because you guys have, and I saw on the website—
So again, agents who are listening right now: maybe your brokerage doesn’t have a property management side.
Maybe you have a property management side that’s not really that good—I don’t know, whatever it is.
But you guys have an actual referral program.
So talk to the agents who may be listening on the referral program where they have an investor who wants to, you know, have the property managed—and why they should recommend Round Table Realty.
And then how do you guys handle—

[00:51:36] Cindy Browning: Yeah. We do have an agent—

[00:51:38] Tracy Hayes: Whether the agent’s with Round Table or with any other broker.

[00:51:40] Cindy Browning: Our referral program goes to every agent.
We actually have agents from other brokerages who send their people to us.
So we do have multiple brokerages that do come to us.
So we get a referral—we’re gonna send that a 20% referral fee when it gets rented out.
Again, I have my spreadsheet of everything. The moment that owner says—

[00:51:58] Tracy Hayes: 20% of—

[00:51:59] Cindy Browning: —of one month’s rent. Yes.

[00:52:01] Tracy Hayes: Okay. All right. All right.

[00:52:02] Cindy Browning: Yep.
We’re gonna send them that when it rents out. I’m gonna keep that spreadsheet.
The moment that owner goes, “You know, I think I’m done—I want to sell,”
I’m gonna look and go, “Oh, Sally.”
And I’m gonna say, “Hey Sally, you still talk to her? I’ll put them in an email together—he’s thinking about selling.”
Whatever they do, fine.
So we always give it back to the agents to keep their pipeline going.

[00:52:20] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You answered that so quickly—it threw me off.
Threw me off because I think—I mean, I’m gonna imagine that probably comes up fairly often.
You know, that they’re asking about it.

So you’re gonna basically take the ball from the course.
The agent should still be contacting the owner—'cause they’re still their client.

Cindy Browning: Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: You know, I mean—my first thought is, “Oh, I’m with XYZ brokerage. I’m gonna send it over to Round Table Property Management.”
They’re just going to, you know—if something happens, they’re just gonna refer it back.
But if you don’t have a property manager or property management company that you’ve got any sort of relationship with—you don’t know where that...

[00:53:01] Cindy Browning: Exactly.
And I don’t sell properties. I stopped doing that—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: —three years ago.
And I don’t want anything to do with them, to be honest.
So I am always happy to say, “Oh, I can see that you and so-and-so worked together—”
Put you in an email and let you figure it out.

Now if the owner, for some reason, is like, “I hated that person and I never wanna see them again,”—

[00:53:20] —that would be a different conversation. But I’ve never had that happen.
So I always give it back to the agent and let them do what they do best and sell the property.

[00:53:27] Tracy Hayes: That actually leads back—under these last two things—the importance of the agents.
You know, the agents who are listening, they have that—
You have that Rolodex of vendors—HVAC company, whatever—the repairman that you can go into. Fix fire.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: But to have a relationship with a property management company...
And if you’re a new agent right now—'cause I imagine you probably go in and talk to the agents at Round Table Realty—

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: You know, whatever new things are on—or just to say, “Hey, I’m here.”

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: You know, if you’re an agent out there that is not savvy on how do I do this handoff—

[00:54:06] Cindy Browning: Yeah.

[00:54:07] Tracy Hayes: —you know, or “Hey, I want to sit down with Cindy and learn a bit,”
'Cause if I refer Cindy, I want to know who Cindy is.

Cindy Browning: Yeah, of course.

Tracy Hayes: So if I—yeah. So you know, the agents listening out there—to reach out to you.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: Because I think just as much as you have that HVAC repairman, you need to have the property management company.
'Cause you are gonna get that call.
And if you haven’t already established a relationship, you may feel a little awkward the first couple times.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: So to reach out, maybe have some coffee or lunch with you and—

Cindy Browning: 100%.

Tracy Hayes: —talk about that. Because if—you know, especially right now, I think you guys probably see...
I mean, the listings are growing.

[00:54:40] There’s... obviously the listings are growing because there’s not as many buyers as there are listings going.
But there’s a lot of listings there.

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: So you have some time right now if you’re—
And of course I do know some agents are crazy with these listings—they’re going out to two or three appointments or more a week, and some of them on the same day.

To take some time to reach out—

[00:54:57] Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: —to you, or if you’re doing some sort of training or social—come out and actually, “How does a property management [company] work?”

[00:55:03] Cindy Browning: Yeah. 100%.
And I think it’s good to have [us] in their back pocket.
Because if they do have a listing appointment that they’re gonna go to—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: —and the owner—maybe the initial conversation was like, “We’re not sure if we want to sell, we’re not sure what our options are.”

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Cindy Browning: Well, now you can talk to me.
I can put together a whole comp sheet for you—what these numbers look like, give you the fee structure.
So when you go to that listing appointment, you say, “All right, Mr. Seller, this is what it could sell for—”
If they’re like, “Eh...” you can throw out that one too and say, “Well look what this could do—I did this for you too.”

[00:55:33] Tracy Hayes: …property management company that will take it over for you—you don't have any headaches. 'Cause I think that's the fear of a lot of people, why a lot don't have investment properties.
It's just this fear of—the renter's gonna destroy their home.

[00:55:43] Cindy Browning: It happens, but—yeah.
Okay. It does happen.
It does happen.

[00:55:46] Tracy Hayes: How often does it happen?

[00:55:47] Cindy Browning: Not much.
I mean, last year we had one eviction out of 175 houses. So like—we haven’t…

[00:55:53] Tracy Hayes: So like you haven’t—was that the one with the washing machine?

[00:55:58] Cindy Browning: Yep. Mm-hmm.
You know—who knows if that line broke after, whatever.
I’m gonna say she may not have been a bad tenant.
I think that it was just probably an oversight.
But it only happens once a year, out of all the properties. So—yeah, not all the time.

I mean, I own rental properties and I have the best tenants in the entire world.
So, I mean, I like it. It's not for everybody.

More what you said earlier—that some people are so attached to their home.
Those are a little trickier, 'cause they are just—
Those are their memories, that’s their everything in that house. So it makes it a little harder.
Just because they’re really emotionally attached, where we’re not emotionally attached.
We’re more, you know, problem-solving, business side—
What can you know, how do we fix it?—type thing.
Yeah, that gets a little bit more difficult. But you know, it’s doable.

[00:56:38] Tracy Hayes: Because I imagine you have some more savvy landlords than others.
And I mean, like you said—
When you were mentioning an agent that may sit down with you—or maybe, maybe even I would suggest—even just a social, and to have that preparation.
Because I imagine you help a lot of 'em out—
“Hey, what kind of rent can we get here?”

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

[00:56:55] Tracy Hayes: You know, obviously a lot of them—
When we order, you know, if we’re doing a loan on an investment, we’re getting a 1007 rent schedule, you know, type of thing.
But I imagine you know enough to know what a going rent should be for that size house and that neighborhood—

Cindy Browning: Yep.

[00:57:11] Tracy Hayes: —type of thing.
So helping them with that, and then showing 'em the expenses, and obviously knowing what their current, you know, mortgage is and so forth, and showing—
“Hey, you can actually make a little bit of a profit here.”
Which I think right now, with interest rates as high as they are—if you’re breaking even—

Cindy Browning: Yeah.

[00:57:20] Tracy Hayes: —you’re probably in good shape, if you're having to take a loan.
Now, if you’ve got a loan that’s five years old and you’ve got a 3% interest rate—

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: —you could actually probably put some cash in your pocket on a monthly basis.

Cindy Browning: Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:57:36] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. And that’s why it’s good just to contact—
Because, I mean, I will come up with a whole professional look and everything.
So you go in and you know exactly what you’re talking about.
And they’re gonna be like, “Whoa, hold on. I didn’t even ask for that.”

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: But you brought it.
And then obviously we do, you know, kind of a handoff if they’re like, “I wanna know more about this” type thing.
But it’s definitely just good to have.
I mean, the more information you have, the better.

[00:57:56] Tracy Hayes: Well, that’s third-party credibility.

[00:57:59] Cindy Browning: Yep.

[00:57:59] Tracy Hayes: That if you’re an agent who’s—you know, maybe you're a newer agent and you’re not savvy at this stuff—and that’s great,
But if you’re not—to reach out to you—

[00:58:07] Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:07] Tracy Hayes: —to throw that presentation together and say, “Hey, I’m going over and doing this listing presentation. Not sure... it's this neighborhood. With all these builders going on, renting might be their best thing.”
To actually have that there—

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:22] Tracy Hayes: —so they can actually see, or at least have it in your back pocket.

[00:58:22] Cindy Browning: Of course. Yeah. And I’m always happy to answer questions.
'Cause, you know, I swear new things come up every day.
But I’ll help walk through it.
Especially if—I mean, I manage probably in every different HOA—like some wonky ones, that you can’t do this and can’t do that—

Tracy Hayes: Right.

[00:58:40] Cindy Browning: —that I can help with things like, you know, those questions that even the owner might ask—
“Well, what do you know about this?”
And we’ve already had the conversation, so you already know how to answer it, and you’re not just standing there like...
So it is really helpful just to get you more prepared for listing appointments.

[00:58:50] Tracy Hayes: Do you think probably one of the biggest things a lot of people fall short on—whether or not they use a property manager or not—
Is really that liability piece, like you were mentioning before.
You don’t really let the landlords have any interaction with the renter that you're putting in there—

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:13] Tracy Hayes: —because it keeps them—their hands clean, so to speak.
But people really underestimate the liability of not using a property management company.

[00:59:20] Cindy Browning: 100%.
I mean, that is our whole job.
As I actually say to people—is we are more about reducing liability than anything else.
Yes—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Browning: —we’re managing the properties.
But it’s to reduce liability.
Florida—there are timelines. There are legal forms.
Everything has to be done correctly or you can miss out on a lot of things.

Eviction-wise, you have to have your paperwork in order, your ledgers in order.
You have to have everything down to a T to get that pushed through.

Same goes with your—you know, when they move out—30 days, you have to follow that timeline to a T, or you have to give 'em back their money.

So there are so many things that people just don’t understand.
They’re like, “Oh, it’s fine. I’ll just do it.”
Cool. You can. But if and when the problem arises—
You’re going to either have to Google, ChatGPT—“How do I get out of this situation?”—or you’re calling a lawyer.

[01:00:00] Tracy Hayes: Exactly.

Cindy Browning: “I need help.”
So yeah—I mean, we’re all about reducing liability.
And that’s our main thing—it’s just taking the stress out of it.
Let us deal with it.
We have everything in place.
And then, you know, we don’t have to worry about those issues.

[01:00:24] Tracy Hayes: You mentioned lawyer—on the other hand, we’ve got accountants.
I would imagine it’s nice at the end of the year—you have a [report] that’s printed out for them to do their taxes with.

[01:00:33] Cindy Browning: Yep.
So they get a cash flow statement—all money in, all money out.
They get their 1099.
It can be uploaded, it can be mailed to them, it can be—they can pick it up themselves.
That’s in their portal 24/7.

We have a bookkeeper who every month does our bank reconciliations—
Makes sure everything looks good.
It’s on point, we’re in compliance.
So yeah, everything is already done for them.
They just print it, take it to their accountant, and let them deal with it. Boom.

[01:00:57] Tracy Hayes: ’Cause that—again, that’s another liability.

[01:00:59] Cindy Browning: Yep.

[01:01:00] Tracy Hayes: You know—the IRS coming back on you.
We don’t know when that’s gonna happen. May never happen.

Cindy Browning: Yep.

Tracy Hayes: I think most people don’t—but they come back and do an audit—

Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: And you are doing scrupulous stuff.
You’ve got everything locked.
“Hey, here’s all the—here’s all the evidence.”
That’s passed forward—again, removing all liability from your investment property here.

Cindy Browning: Yep. 100%.

[01:01:20] Tracy Hayes: All right, let’s finish with a couple horror—
Gimme, gimme—'cause that’s what I, that the audience wants to—
And then, you know, how did you rectify it?
'Cause I think this stuff happens.

You have the bad—
'Cause I imagine you have—I could ask you stories of, you have great renters, and they were in there for years, always paid on time, and they painted the place, and the place was better than when they got it originally.
You have those stories too.

[01:01:44] Cindy Browning: Yep.

[01:01:45] Tracy Hayes: But, for those possible landlords out there—or people thinking about being—
Give us a uh... situations you’ve had in the last, whatever, year.
And then how did you—I imagine, obviously, you rectified it, got it fixed for them, and they’re renting again.

[01:01:57] Cindy Browning: Yeah. So I’ll give you two different stories.
One: a tenant moved out of the property, so we go to take a look at it.
I’m pretty sure there was a hole in every wall.

Tracy Hayes: Oh my goodness...

[01:02:09] Tracy Hayes: Punch... whatever it was. Chair?

[01:02:12] Cindy Browning: Yeah. Carpet’s completely ruined. Cabinets off. Lights broken.
I don’t know if they were angry or what they were, but that was—

[01:02:19] Tracy Hayes: You had no foreshadowing of this?

[01:02:21] Cindy Browning: Yeah, this—

[01:02:22] Tracy Hayes: It wasn’t like they were complainers or anything like that? They just said, “Hey, our lease is up. We’re moving out.”

[01:02:27] Cindy Browning: We never had any issues with them.
And then I got an email from one of the tenants—him and the other guy were roommates—and he’s like, “I just wanna let you know that my roommate peed everywhere in the house.”
And I was like, cool.
Thank you for letting us know that.
So I think they had some kind of spat—went separate ways. But yeah, that was interesting to go in and find all of that.
’Cause I was like, that was not necessary.

[01:02:50] Tracy Hayes: Something I did back—well, probably when you were in elementary school—
I had—my cousin and I had a carpet cleaning company.
I remember one job, a management company sent us out to.
The basement was carpet. This was up in the Northern Virginia area.
And literally there were burn holes—

[01:03:09] Cindy Browning: Oh!

[01:03:09] Tracy Hayes: —in the carpet.
I mean, it was like they went around with a cigarette and just like—
do, do, do.
Yeah. I mean, it was unbelievable.

[01:03:10] Cindy Browning: Yep.

[01:03:10] Tracy Hayes: And it was like—and then on top of that—
Come in with just shoes that were just covered in mud—

[01:03:20] Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:20] Tracy Hayes: —because that’s what it was. I mean, there’s no way you rent that place out again without replacing the carpet.

[01:03:24] Cindy Browning: Yep.
And we had to do a full renovation on that property.
Lots of cleaning, obviously.
But yeah, that was probably one of the more random—
I mean obviously we get people who get evicted who, you know, have different things.

[01:03:37] Tracy Hayes: So that situation—you got the holes punched in the walls—so you go in with your expertise and now you’re creating a report for the landlord?

[01:03:43] Cindy Browning: Correct.

Tracy Hayes: This is what we need to fix, this is my estimate on our cost?

[01:03:50] Cindy Browning: Yeah.
Okay, so we always have a third-party inspection come in—same as we did the first time, same as at six months.
So we have all the reports. They do their thing.
Once we do that, I’ll go in, see what needs to be done, get the vendors out there—
“Hey, I need—” and I’ll blue tape it—
“I need this, this, this, this.”
Let them know what they need.
We’ll pull that together, send it to the owner.
“Hey, they have $1,300 in a security deposit, but it’s gonna be $6,000 to get this back.”
Like, “What do you wanna do?”
And of course, they’ll be like, “All right, I’ll send the money. Do it.”
So then we project-manage it, get it back up, get it re-rented.

[01:04:20] Tracy Hayes: How difficult is it with a client that clearly knows they destroyed the house—when you don’t send them their $1,300 back?

[01:04:26] Cindy Browning: If it’s obvious, they know.
They just know.

I will always tell if a property’s gonna be good or bad is—
If a tenant comes to our office to physically hand us the keys, or if they call and say, “I left the keys in the house,”
I immediately know something’s up.
That the house is not okay.

[01:04:43] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:04:44] Cindy Browning: Like, you didn’t come in the office to fill out the key receipt—why didn’t you do that?
Yeah, and immediately I’m like, it’s not in good shape.
And so that’s just like a light bulb that goes off.

But usually, like for ones like that—we back-charge them for all the stuff.
Like, that’s neglect. That wasn’t just normal wear and tear.

So then, you know, we have to send it to collections.
And again, I’ve only gotten people to pay that once or twice.
But I mean, that’s—the owner can take them to small claims court if they really want the money for it.
But yeah, what we do is we charge them for it.

[01:05:11] Tracy Hayes: They don’t often pursue it, is that—

[01:05:14] Cindy Browning: Some do.

[01:05:15] Tracy Hayes: —something like that where they’re pretty much $5,000 out?

[01:05:18] Cindy Browning: I will say I’ve had an owner who did it.

[01:05:19] Tracy Hayes: It falls into small claims?

[01:05:20] Cindy Browning: I had an owner who did it and worked with Kin Law to do it.
And they sent the letter and the guy ended up actually bringing a $12,000 check for the damage that he created.
He broke his lease early and he paid for all the back rent and the damages—and sent them a check.
So it does work.
Not every owner wants to go through the process.
And we’re not attorneys, so we can’t do it for them.

[01:05:41] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[01:05:41] Cindy Browning: But the one that did, he got paid for it.

[01:05:44] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Wow. All right, so that’s one story. You said you had two?

[01:05:48] Cindy Browning: Yes.
So evictions—I mean, we only—

[01:05:50] Tracy Hayes: Well, I imagine you got that house probably back up to speed in a few weeks.

[01:05:53] Cindy Browning: Yeah.

[01:05:53] Tracy Hayes: Okay.

[01:05:54] Cindy Browning: Yeah, it’s been rented for quite a while.
So one of the worst ones, I will say—so like I said, evictions, we only do one a year if—and it’s always somebody who starts out beautiful.
I mean, six months in, they’re paying, you don’t have any issues.
And then it’s like, something life-changing—

[01:06:09] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Lose a job, or whatever—job, death, sickness...

[01:06:12] Cindy Browning: Whatever happens.
And this lady—I kept working with her like, “Come on, we can get you back. Don’t make me do eviction.”
She was so sweet.

And then finally she just kind of stopped responding, and I was like, “All right, so we gotta—we gotta do the process.”
Like, you’re not giving me anything to work with here.

And I knew that she was not going—
You know, the court—you go through the system, the sheriff has to give the writ, we have to show up.
And I knew for a fact that she was still gonna be there.

And sure enough, we show up with the sheriff’s office, and she had not packed anything.
Everything was still there.
They gave her 10 minutes to grab what she could, pretty much. And locked it up.
And it was probably one of the worst ones—
'Cause I was like, it was just so frustrating.

[01:07:04] Cindy Browning (cont.): It’s like—I told you what was gonna happen.
Like, I warned you.
And it was like—I wanted to help her so badly, but it was like—I can’t do it for her.
Like, you know, I can’t force her to get her stuff together.
But that was one of the worst ones for me—'cause I was just like, man.

[01:07:04] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:07:04] Cindy Browning: I wanted us to get through this so easily.

[01:07:06] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[01:07:07] Cindy Browning: And we didn’t.

[01:07:08] Tracy Hayes: How long is that process?
How long did that take—from the point where you’re like, “Okay, I’m pulling the—I've gotta file.”

[01:07:14] Cindy Browning: Four weeks.
Normally—if you get around that holiday, Thanksgiving, Christmas—you can be pushed out six weeks, 'cause you know, they close for everything.
But usually, it’s pretty quick. Especially if there’s no contesting from the tenant and they’re just like—

[01:07:26] Tracy Hayes: How far behind do they have to be before you file?
What are the—
I guess, 'cause I imagine when you file for an eviction, you have to put on there the reasons.

[01:07:34] Cindy Browning: Yeah. So you can do it literally the day that rent’s due.
By Florida law, if rent is due on the first—

[01:07:40] Tracy Hayes: —by the second, you can file an eviction.

[01:07:42] Cindy Browning: You can.
You can say rent’s due on the first, and by—

[01:07:46] Tracy Hayes: Of course, that costs you money, and yeah, not really worth it.

[01:07:50] Cindy Browning: You start with the three-day letter.
It’s kind of like a “Hey…”
And I don’t do three-day letters until later in the week—just give people time.
Like—right? We’re not trying to be jerks.
I don’t want to kick anybody out.
And I don’t want the owner to have to pay for it either.

[01:08:00] Cindy Browning (cont.): So I will do everything in my power—
Like, “Hey, send me your rent.”
Hopefully save it.
Yes, it’s my last thing that I have to do.

So yeah—you get the three-day letter, and then if still nothing, then it goes to the attorneys.
They, you know, do their jazz to take it through.
But that is not the first line of advice.

[01:08:16] Tracy Hayes: What are the steps that are required? Like when you go to file, that you have sent them a three-day letter? That's an actual—

[01:08:24] Cindy Browning: Yep. So it has to be posted on their property, or sent by certified mail pretty much—or handed to them. So we have somebody post that on, you know, whatever day we send it out on. We give 'em a couple—well, they have three business days. Holidays and weekends don’t count. So whatever that day is—let's say it's the 12th—well, on the 13th, still nothing. I’ll still follow up, “Hey, you know, time's up now.” Like, what are you gonna do?
I get some people who, you know, will work with us and we’ll put them on a payment plan. Otherwise, if we don’t hear from them or they’re like, “Nope, not paying,” we send it to our attorney with all the lease and information form and let them pretty much take it from there.

[01:08:59] Tracy Hayes: So really within like two weeks of them not paying—if they're not even responding to you—you're, “Hey, I've tried numerous times. You're not even saying hi to me.”

[01:09:08] Cindy Browning: Yep.

[01:09:08] Tracy Hayes: You're going to the attorney and filing?

[01:09:11] Cindy Browning: Pretty much, yep. And we can always stop it. It’s one of those things—until it actually hits the court—we can still stop it. I mean, it’s... and I tell people, it’s kind of like a—

[01:09:18] Tracy Hayes: Foreclosure. I mean exactly. You literally can make a deal up to the day.

[01:09:22] Cindy Browning: Right. Right.

[01:09:22] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:09:22] Cindy Browning: So yeah, it’s our last line of defense. And we don’t have to do many of them, but it still happens.

[01:09:27] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. You mentioned a telltale sign is when they don’t turn their keys in—always.
Now I imagine you have a lot of great renters. This lady was at the beginning—

[01:09:35] Cindy Browning: Yep.

[01:09:35] Tracy Hayes: So that’s not really any red flag. You just have someone who pays, makes their payment on time and hasn’t had any issues.

[01:09:40] Cindy Browning: Yep.

[01:09:42] Tracy Hayes: Is there any other kind of telltale signs to someone who might be a landlord out there? 'Cause I imagine a lot of people try to be empathetic and, you know... but at some point you're like, this is business.

[01:09:55] Cindy Browning: Yep. That’s the hard part. And I tell owners, I'm like—we are your middle person. Let us deal with it. Yes, I have empathy, but I also know that it is a business.
They can give me some story, and I’ll be like, “Okay, I understand that. Totally get it. Let’s do a payment plan.” And if they’re like, “Well I don’t wanna do that,” okay, well what do you want me to do? I’m throwing you a rope here. I’m trying to help you.
So yeah, I mean, telltale signs are usually when you—you know, if you get somebody who’s been there for a while, and then it’s just excuses, things are coming up... I mean, it’s just something to pay attention to—of like, okay, this is starting to happen.
So they’re either taking advantage, or they do have something happening. But it’s just something to keep an eye on so you can catch it early, or at least not be caught off guard.

[01:10:37] Tracy Hayes: So over your years in property management—just these scenarios going on—you’ve kind of attuned to some of these things?

[01:10:45] Cindy Browning: Yes.

[01:10:45] Tracy Hayes: I imagine you and your team are trained: document everything.

[01:10:50] Cindy Browning: 100%.

[01:10:50] Tracy Hayes: Every conversation you have. “Hey, I called him and—”

[01:10:53] Cindy Browning: Yep. Yeah, we have notes. The system lets us email, text, everything. So everything that we do is already in there.
And if it is outside of—like maybe through a regular email—we don’t delete.
Put it in a file. We put it in a file. We keep everything.
So if there is a time that it comes up and it’s like, “Well, you said this,” I’m like, “All right, let’s pull the receipts,” and we’ll start talking about it.
But yes—we document everything.

[01:11:16] Tracy Hayes: All right. Not that you haven’t sold Round Table Property Management today with all your explanation, and I think anyone listening—if you’ve listened to this whole podcast—you were right off with every answer.
You are very confident in what you’re doing. You’re on top of your game, basically, is what I’m saying.
But I’m gonna throw this last question at you.
This is your 30-, 90-second—whatever—elevator pitch.
Your advertisement. Maybe Aaron can cut this last minute out here.
And maybe we—we could put it on Facebook with that other video.

[01:11:45] Cindy Browning: Yeah.

[01:11:47] Tracy Hayes: That other video.
Why—you know, I’m a landlord listening to this right now, or I’m a real estate agent who has an investor—you know, that might be a referral for you—why should they be using...
Why should they call Cindy and your team at Round Table Property Management?

[01:12:04] Cindy Browning: So as best as I can—like I said, I own rental properties.
I’ve used other property management companies. I saw where they fell short. I saw where there were things I didn’t like.
Again, my major thing is communication.
That was one thing—I could never get ahold of my property manager.
I never knew what was going on.
We are built on communication.
If it’s email, if it’s text, if it’s calls, if it’s in person—there’s always someone to talk to during the week.
So for me, that’s the biggest strength that we have.

And I think especially in this day and age, where a lot of companies are pushing people off—and now you're, you know, escalating to another rep and you’re like, “I just want an answer”—that’s all we want.
I feel like we’ve bridged that gap.
So when you’re calling and you’re so frustrated, and you’re like, “You know, I wanna speak to somebody else”—
No, you’re going to get one person who’s gonna get you that answer.
They may not have it right this second, but they’re going to get you that answer.

And my biggest thing is—we’re always gonna fall short. That just... you know, we’re humans. Things happen.
But we’re always gonna make it right.
And that, to me, is our biggest thing.
We may mess up. We may miss something.
But we are always going to make it right to the tenants and to the owners.

[01:13:10] Tracy Hayes: I think—if, you know, having listened to you the last hour and fifteen minutes of our conversation—I think there’s two things that I think I would add to your pitch, or at least make it a point...

[01:13:20] Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

[01:13:21] Tracy Hayes: Your systems. Okay. Your proactivity, because I think as a landlord handing you over a property and I'm not here to go by and see it...

[01:13:29] Cindy Browning: Yeah.

[01:13:30] Tracy Hayes: You're being proactive. The inspections that you're talking about—you're trying to prevent. And I would actually track... It would be interesting to track, because of your proactivity, which I guarantee a lot of property management companies are not even offering...

[01:13:44] Cindy Browning: Mm-hmm.

[01:13:44] Tracy Hayes: That ability to go out and do these inspections—that’s how you're avoiding insurance claims, for example.
You know, avoiding the conflict. 'Cause you're a conflict mitigator, and you're trying to minimize that so greatly. And the last thing a landlord needs is to have to do an insurance claim on a house—and then their insurance is going up.
Because that is a big topic in Florida right—

[01:14:06] Cindy Browning: That is true.

[01:14:07] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, that is very true. Just to catch that—not that you didn't mean to say that—it’s there. And I think it's a great... You know, if I'm looking for a property management company and you were explaining that to me, I'd be like, “Yeah, that makes sense.”
Yeah, because you have the service, and then the benefit is—hey, you're less likely to have an insurance claim because we're checking on those things for you.
And that's gonna save in the long run, because I think most landlords—I mean, would you agree or disagree?
You deal with it all day long. You have to look at investment property—especially right now—you have to look at it from a long game, like three, five-plus years.

[01:14:40] Cindy Browning: Yep.

[01:14:43] Tracy Hayes: It can't be, “Hey, am I making a dollar next month?”

[01:14:43] Cindy Browning: A hundred percent.

[01:14:44] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. So you want, obviously, good clients in there for a long period of time and minimize your repairs.

[01:14:50] Cindy Browning: Yep. A hundred percent.
Yeah, that's all we—

[01:14:52] Tracy Hayes: —wanna do. Exactly.

[01:14:53] Cindy Browning: We take the stress out of it. And, you know, it’s not a set-it-and-forget-it. We're constantly hands-on every day to make sure that we're doing the right thing.

[01:15:00] Tracy Hayes: Yep. Beautiful. Appreciate you coming on.

[01:15:03] Cindy Browning: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

[01:15:04] Tracy Hayes: Anything you'd like to add?

[01:15:05] Cindy Browning: That's—

[01:15:05] Tracy Hayes: —it. All right. Thanks for coming.

[01:15:07] Cindy Browning: Thank you all.