Truth in Real Estate: Protect the Seller, TruthCertified Agents, and Her $2B Referral Network Ep 341 Kati Spaniak

REE #341 Transcript

[00:00:00] Kati Spaniak: If you're not investing in your business from the first, like, search of your name, like you're not spending any money.

In order to be a, a great, again, a great means whatever—mm—but you have to invest in your business.

You have to make professional marketing. You have to put that brand out there.

[00:00:52] Tracy Hayes: Hey, welcome back the Real Estate Excellence Podcast. I'm your host, Tracy Hayes, and today's guest has personally closed nearly half a billion dollars in real estate across more than 700 transactions, and somewhere along the way she realized the biggest risk in selling a home isn't the market, it's picking the wrong agent, which I—hopefully a lot of you will agree with.

So she built something to fix it, a national referral network that's placed almost $2 billion in real estate with vetted Truth Certified agents, a free movement asking agents to sign 10 specific promises that we'll go over, in writing, reviewed by a real person, renewable, revocable if broken, and a YouTube channel with over 80,000 subscribers teaching sellers exactly what to demand before they sign anything.

She's a nine-time Icon Agent at eXp Realty, eXp's Icon Instructor of the Year, and—

[00:01:47] Tracy Hayes: —isn't her first trip to the Real Estate Excellence Podcast. This is her second show.

So if you know to want to know the background on Katie, please go to her first show, 'cause today we're gonna be about Truth Certified and protecttheseller.com.

[00:02:00] Tracy Hayes: Katie, welcome to the show.

[00:02:00] Kati Spaniak: Thank you for having me back.

[00:02:01] Tracy Hayes: Great.

I am really interested—mm-hmm—'cause, as we just talking, I think, you know, in a lot of industries or, you know, well, even at the, um, agents out there, what's it, trustmyagent.com, right? That's a, a referral—

[00:02:35] Kati Spaniak: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:02:35] Tracy Hayes: —site. You, people can leave reviews—

[00:02:35] Kati Spaniak: Yep.

[00:02:35] Tracy Hayes: —on you.

[00:02:35] Kati Spaniak: Yep, yep.

[00:02:35] Tracy Hayes: That's very popular.

[00:02:35] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:35] Tracy Hayes: I know because my wife was actually awarded St. Johns County for Trustmyagent.com.

But Truth Certified takes it to another level.

[00:02:35] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:35] Tracy Hayes: And 'cause you're, you're, it's not just the customers, but you, as an agent with experience, is now vetting these agents that you're actually referring out.

[00:02:35] Kati Spaniak: Yes.

[00:02:36] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:02:36] Kati Spaniak: So there's kind of a big, long story with this, and I'm excited because you're the first place I'm actually throwing this out to the public. So—

[00:02:45] Tracy Hayes: You heard it first here on the—

[00:02:47] Kati Spaniak: I know.

[00:02:45] Tracy Hayes: —Real Estate Excellence Podcast.

[00:02:47] Kati Spaniak: I, I had put it out there, kind of tested it, and you followed me, and you were like, "That's interesting."

[00:02:53] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:53] Kati Spaniak: I'm really excited because I think what I'm doing is gonna change the real estate industry. I truly believe it. And I'm gonna start, it's me and my daughter, Lisa.

[00:03:02] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:03:02] Kati Spaniak: So we do this together. And it, the kind of the short story, which the long story was the last time, the short story is that I have a YouTube channel that I started years ago.

Right now we're actually over, like, 85,000 subscribers and 11 million views, so that's a lot, right?

[00:03:02] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:02] Kati Spaniak: And I started by doing, talking to sellers, basically about how to get their homes ready to sell. And it's, it's probably one of the more popular selling YouTube channels.

And there's a long story behind this that if you're starting YouTube, stop, just wait, don't do anything yet. Don't, try not to do what I'm doing. It has been a very hard road.

But what it essentially did is built a referral-based business. And our referral-based business is with Tru—it's called Truth in Real Estate. That's our company.

And Truth in Real Estate, we refer agents. So we've referred almost $2 billion in referrals across the—to agents, and we've been doing this for years.

And a lot of the problems came about because it's very hard. It's very, very difficult to find great agents. And I can talk a little bit about that. I can talk about a lot of different things, but—

[00:04:08] Tracy Hayes: Is it a little bit because of—in reality we know there's only a very small percentage that actually are producing consistently year in and year out.

[00:04:17] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:04:17] Tracy Hayes: That you, it's clouded by a lot of smoke because it—a low entry in there. You have—and, and you have just a lot of agents that aren't producing. They have a license.

[00:04:25] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:04:25] Tracy Hayes: And can say there's 12,000 agents in Northeast Florida, but we really only know there's a couple hundred that are truly actually month in, month out, year in, year out—

[00:04:32] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm. P—

[00:04:33] Tracy Hayes: —doing business.

[00:04:33] Kati Spaniak: Yeah. And so it's, it's also more than that.

You know, you get a lot of groups where—and I'm talking from the agent side, okay? This is more agent to agent, not the seller side.

But the, you know, when we as agents get a lead, a referral lead, and we wanna place it with somebody, the first thing people is like, "Do you know an agent in that area?"

You know, you ask out to your network or you ask somebody. And as agents we think, "Oh, just gonna give it to this person who seems great and nice," without really checking they gonna close that deal.

And I know all this because we've gone through the whole process of making lots and lots and lots of mistakes.

[00:05:08] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:05:09] Kati Spaniak: And so, you know, the first thing is, are they gonna close the deal? Because that's money in your pocket, okay?

The other thing about referrals, it's a very long tail. It's a very long life cycle. And on the back end, you know, you're not m—you're not getting necessarily very much.

My first transaction after doing hundreds of hours of s—was $1,700 check is what I got.

Yeah. My husband's like, "You are not gonna build a business on, on that."

Mm. And I was like, "Okay."

You know? I mean, it was, it was a little like, ugh, so much work. So—

[00:05:38] Tracy Hayes: Sounds like me.

[00:05:38] Kati Spaniak: Go ahead. Yeah, exactly.

I was thinking that, I was thinking that, and you're kinda telling me everything that you're up to. Yeah. It, is kind of that.

It's a, where are we, what are we doing?

So the referral side of the business is very difficult because I get a lead, I get a real lead, somebody who definitely wants to sell, I give them the name of an agent who I do not know somewhere across the country, also done Canada.

I give them the name. That agent who I don't know is now responsible for my income.

And so, I've gotten referrals—an agent—and I'm like, "Oh my God, I totally forgot to check on that referral."

You know? Like, agents on the other side aren't realizing the significance of what they're holding in hands.

They think, "Oh, yes, I've signed this agreement. If something happens, you know, I'll pay a commission."

But the people who are giving out referrals, you're giving out money basically.

[00:06:24] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:06:25] Kati Spaniak: And you need to make sure that the best agents are closing.

Now, what is the best agent? What—

[00:06:29] Tracy Hayes: What is the best agents? Well—

[00:06:30] Kati Spaniak: I mean—

[00:06:30] Tracy Hayes: I can talk about obviously some characteristics of people that I've had on the show.

[00:06:30] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:30] Tracy Hayes: Obviously they're following up regularly.

[00:06:30] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:30] Tracy Hayes: They're, they're, they're making those touches.

You know, you know, obviously some of the things I know you have on your list, I mean, they're putting the customer first and so forth, but obviously I think there's one thing you were leading to is they're gonna follow up.

Because I imagine the leads sometimes are not like, "Hey, we're looking to list tomorrow."

[00:06:30] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:06:30] Tracy Hayes: It might be six months from now and we wanna get prepared. Two years.

[00:06:54] Kati Spaniak: Yeah. It might be two years. Yeah.

You know, so we have—we have had thousands of referral, okay?

And every single agent that we have referred, Lisa and I have literally gone into their profiles. We look them up, we look at their social media, we look at their listing photos, we look at their professional photos of themselves.

We look at the reviews, we look at how they respond. We look, is their website finished?

I am providing a very high-level concierge service to the sellers who are asking me for an agent, and I—I believe in this very, very strongly.

It's this, a passion of mine that I'm trying to raise bar in the real estate industry.

And so the agents that I refer, it's very important to—that I am referring agents that I would say, "That's a good agent. Like, I can tell—"

[00:06:54] Tracy Hayes: Mm.

[00:06:54] Kati Spaniak: "—that's a good agent."

And so we basically have a five-level pyramid that kind of starts on what we're looking for first.

And our first basis of this is the experience. Because I know as a real estate agent, we are learn on the job, and the best agents are the ones who have the most experience. Bottom line, end of story.

Let me tell you—

[00:08:03] Tracy Hayes: Well, I w—when I say best—

[00:08:03] Kati Spaniak: When I say best—

[00:08:03] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. I was gonna say—

[00:08:03] Kati Spaniak: I say best, I mean, 'cause I could find a 25-year agent right now, but they're probably might be on the tail end.

Okay. They're not in their, their peak of—

[00:08:10] Kati Spaniak: So—

[00:08:10] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:08:12] Kati Spaniak: Yeah. So let me explain that little bit.

[00:08:12] Tracy Hayes: Where's the—yeah, where's the level there?

[00:08:14] Kati Spaniak: Because, wait, because I've sold so much real estate, I can tell you, I can look at an agent and be like, "Yeah, that person's on the tail end. They're not gonna be working," or, "That's a buyer's agent."

Like I can see all this, and Lisa—

[00:08:14] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:08:14] Kati Spaniak: —also sees this too now.

So what we look for is you have to have a minimum level of experience in order to be a great agent, okay?

Now that doesn't mean—

[00:08:33] Tracy Hayes: Possibility of a—

[00:08:34] Kati Spaniak: Great agent. Possibility of a great agent. Yeah.

Like who I'm referring, okay? I mean, all these terms are just kind of, you throw them around because they're really very, very subjective, right?

[00:08:43] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:08:44] Kati Spaniak: So best, you know, whatever.

But experience is—we learn on the job, okay?

So I can say every single deal I've worked on, which is thousands—I've sold 700, I've not sold thousands, right? I've gotten fired, I've written contracts, they haven't gone through, whatever it is.

Every single transaction, every single contract I write, every single deal I'm in, I learn something new.

And that is the only way you learn in this industry is on-the-job training, which is very unfortunate for our industry.

There is such a low barrier to entry in real estate, and that is why we have such a problem in our industry with the perception of who we are.

So I know agents who have cost sellers and buyers tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars, but on the other hand, I know agents who have made their clients tens of thousands, if not hundreds thousands of dollars.

Right. It's the clients that have—or it's the agents that have cost those clients the money that give the great ones the bad name.

In addition, the price for both the good agent, good and the bad agent, or the—and the not experienced, however you wanna call them, is the same.

Pretty much the new agents, the inexperienced agents, the ones who don't care what they're doing, demand the same price as the experienced ones, and the experienced ones sh—are like, "I've earned this. I am worth this."

[00:10:04] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:04] Kati Spaniak: And the brokerages are saying to the new, inexperienced ones, "No, you need charge this."

Now that's fine. Each individual, each individual brokerage is allowed to set their—right?

[00:10:04] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:10:04] Kati Spaniak: They can set their standards on what agents charge.

But in our industry, you don't—a lot of the conversation of, "Listen, if you're new, if you're inexperienced, charge less."

Like, you don't hear that from the association. You don't hear that the brokerage. You just hear, "Oh, this is what you need to charge," and then people go out, charge it.

So that's part of the problem with the industry.

So when I'm looking at an agent, I know an agent who has sold over, pretty much, 150 homes, has what I would consider to be, like, comparable experience to mine, okay?

Like—

[00:10:04] Tracy Hayes: As—

[00:10:04] Kati Spaniak: —far as, like, they've seen this, they've seen this, they've seen this. They've seen all these different types of transactions, right?

Now, it doesn't mean that they're better or worse than me. I never give that type of a thing.

I really believe every agent runs their own business, and I don't know what their business is. So I never try to overstep into their business.

I can tell you an agent that has done 150 deals, specifically 150 deals in the past five years, is an agent who has experience.

Now, if done that in the last five years, it means they're full-time.

[00:11:23] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:11:24] Kati Spaniak: If it's a luxury market, it might be a little less. If it's a lower-price market, it might be a little bit more.

Okay, so now that's the first base layer, is how experienced are they?

It doesn't mean that we wouldn't refer a non-experienced agent, but if we get a, a seller saying, "Commission is really important to us," I'm not going to the top agent in the market. Just—because that top agent is, "This is what I charge. I've got a full team."

I might say to the seller then, "Okay, commission is super important to you. This agent looks really good, really solid. I like this agent. You might be able to negotiate commission on that."

But if you—they don't. They're not required to negotiate a commission.

So that's, like, the first level, is experience. I've got four more.

[00:12:07] Tracy Hayes: So we can stop there. You, you—we can—yeah, you s—yeah, you—well, you brought up something there.

How, m—for the agents who are listening, who may be interested in being part of your, of your group here, which hopefully they all are, y—it sounds like you're having—you're having conversation with, these people are contacting you m—through YouTube—

[00:12:07] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:12:07] Tracy Hayes: —however, however they're reaching out, through your website or whatever.

You're actually having almost, I wouldn't say call a buyer's cons—a seller's consultation, but you're having a consultation with them verbally.

No. Is, or is it often just—

[00:12:35] Kati Spaniak: Not at this point. We've, we've gotten so good at this.

[00:12:38] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:38] Kati Spaniak: Like, we used to. We've just gotten so good at this, and the people who follow me have downloaded all my free information, so they're usually very educated.

My seller referrals are typically—been watching my videos. They know how to price a home. They know how to get it ready. They know how to hire a good agent. They, they know all this.

[00:12:57] Tracy Hayes: So really, getting on this team, it sounds like to me, is a, almost a laydown because you've already educated—

[00:12:57] Kati Spaniak: Oh, yeah.

[00:12:57] Tracy Hayes: —the client, so they just need to follow in your tutelage of what you've taught, and you don't really have to go in-depth and resell—

[00:12:57] Kati Spaniak: No.

[00:12:57] Tracy Hayes: —the client 'cause you've already sold them on—

[00:13:13] Kati Spaniak: We already have, because we believe that we are the best referral company.

I put that in quotes—

[00:13:13] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:13] Kati Spaniak: —because that's not quite how we view ourselves.

But we believe that we are the best client concierge for sellers in the country, and buyers. We do buyers too. It's a little more difficult.

But the seller side, I don't think there's anybody in the whole country has reviewed as many agents as have. We're talking 6,000. 6,000 personally hand-vetted.

So, like, people listening to this right now, if they are a top agent in their market, there is a very good chance I already know who they are, we've given them a referral, or we've put them on our not-refer list.

Like, there is a—

[00:13:50] Tracy Hayes: Good chance.

And, and I think, I think it's important, as, you know, to put out there for a possible seller who might be listening, these people aren't paying to be part of your group.

[00:13:58] Kati Spaniak: No. Mm-mm.

[00:13:58] Tracy Hayes: Now, obviously giving you a, a part of their commission because they're, 'cause you're—

[00:13:58] Kati Spaniak: Correct.

[00:13:58] Tracy Hayes: —make the referral fee, but they don't get until this home is sold.

[00:13:58] Kati Spaniak: No.

[00:13:58] Tracy Hayes: It's not like Zillow where they're buying leads and so they're put up on the top of the list type of thing.

[00:13:58] Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

[00:13:58] Tracy Hayes: 'Cause they're paying that much money up front for those things.

These are people who, uh, they're, it's a volunteer situation and, you're vetting them.

[00:14:17] Kati Spaniak: Exactly. Mm-hmm.

And I'm very clear with viewers that I get a referral fee, and they have to sign before they actually ask for the referral, and that's part of what I say, truth in real estate. That's my company.

[00:14:17] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:17] Kati Spaniak: And my company is about being real, being authentic, being truthful, being transparent to the people we are serving.

And who are we serving? We're not serving us, and every organization, every brokerage, every company is trying to get their hands in the pot on our industry, and what we have lost sight of is the consumer.

And that is I'm trying to change. That is what I believe—

[00:14:17] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:14:17] Kati Spaniak: —needs to change, and if we start putting the consumer first, our industry is gonna change.

[00:14:55] Tracy Hayes: I'm just move this just a little bit—

[00:14:55] Kati Spaniak: Yep.

[00:14:55] Tracy Hayes: —so get a little more f—front of you. But I don't wanna put myself in the camera.

[00:15:01] Kati Spaniak: Yeah. No worries. All right. Good. There we go. Good. That better?

[00:15:02] Tracy Hayes: Right. Good. There we go.

[00:15:03] Kati Spaniak: Good. That better?

[00:15:03] Tracy Hayes: All right. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Okay.

Well, this is what's so amazing. When you go—the History Channel's great with this. Y—they go and study the great companies, and we know of some companies right now that w—we do business with because they are putting—it's not the customer's always right. It's not that.

[00:15:03] Kati Spaniak: No.

[00:15:03] Tracy Hayes: They're already doing it without somebody asking. They're already trying to be in—the customer's shoes and putting them forward, and that's why they're growing and have great success.

And I think, you know, of the top agents, a lot of them obviously I've had on, including yourself, it's those agents who are trying to wow the customer—

[00:15:03] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:03] Tracy Hayes: —without the customer asking to be wowed.

[00:15:03] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:15:03] Tracy Hayes: They're just doing stuff that, you know, customers just think, "Oh, my God, I can't believe you did that."

I was talking an agent actually on, on Facebook this morning.

[00:15:03] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:03] Tracy Hayes: She posted this video where a customer said, "I saw a lot of your videos, and you're, like, picking up trash or cleaning stuff or whatever."

You—she's just showing her daily thing as a real estate agent.

She's, "Do you charge for that?"

[00:15:03] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:15:03] Tracy Hayes: You know, type of thing.

No, she's just wowing the customer.

[00:15:03] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:15:03] Tracy Hayes: And, and it's those agents that are doing—and obviously these are the agents, the type of agents that you're trying to attract to your group.

[00:16:06] Kati Spaniak: You know, it's so interesting is that the top-level agents get exactly I'm talking about.

Like, you would think that would be harder for me to get experienced agents on board. It's harder to get the newer on board. They, don't, get it. Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: Yeah. They don't grasp it. But the agents who have lost a to somebody who's bought it, who said, "I'm giving them a price," or an agent who's like, "That was the worst choice this seller could ever make," or the agent who has away from a commission they knew it wasn't right for their seller, those are the agents that are gravitating towards me, and those are the agents that are referring.

The agents that we have in our right now are the top agents the whole country.

Top sellers—

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: —top people, top marketing, top teams, top everybody, and they're the ones that are really like, "I love this idea."

[00:16:54] Tracy Hayes: I think you're attracting, you're attracting like kind.

[00:16:56] Kati Spaniak: I'm attracting to my circle.

[00:16:57] Tracy Hayes: They're fo— That's, you are the average of the people—your s—that you're talking about.

[00:17:00] Kati Spaniak: Yep. You're the average of the people in your circle.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:00] Kati Spaniak: And that's why we created the Protect the Seller circle, which is—it kind of is a dual, a dual thing.

What was happening is we were referring agents and we, that met our criteria, right? Their experience, their photos, their team structure looked great.

But didn't know, are they putting consumer first? We didn't know if they're incredibly pushy, difficult, buying, listing type—we didn't know that.

And we were saying, "You know, we're giving a True Certified agent." True Certified would be somebody that we have vetted the way we have.

But we couldn't say, "This person believes in I believe in."

And the people who me on YouTube, they love me.

Tracy Hayes: Mm.

Kati Spaniak: Like, it's a weird thing, but they love me. They know me. They, like, believe what I'm saying to because I'm always honest.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Kati Spaniak: And I'm always telling them the truth. I'm not disparaging, not saying agents are all terrible. I'm saying these are the things you need to watch for in our industry.

And so what we started doing is we were like, "Gosh, I wish we had a database of agents who I knew are willing to talk about cancellation policies up front."

Not—do they allow a cancellation? But literally just talking about it with—

[00:18:18] Tracy Hayes: That was of my questions I asked your bot was—

[00:18:21] Kati Spaniak: You did.

[00:18:21] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I started the question of—which any—anyone listening, you go on Katie's website and then it has all Katie's teachings in a, what, it's called a, at least I don't know if... way I understood it in AI world, they call it a RAG, which is an acronym for—

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: —whatever RAG stands for.

But all of your teachings are in there.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: And so, the, you asked question and AI, I call it the AI librarian—

Kati Spaniak: Yes.

Tracy Hayes: —goes and finds where you're talking about that. From—

[00:18:46] Kati Spaniak: My videos.

[00:18:47] Tracy Hayes: And from your videos in there. And pulls those transcripts and, and answers it—

[00:18:50] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:18:51] Tracy Hayes: —like a human. And it, it was, you know, I think the question was how long should you recommend an initial listing agreement—

[00:18:58] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:18:59] Tracy Hayes: —type of thing. And it went in and started explaining, and you, you the options. Whether you do 90 days or six months or whatever, you know, you should, I think the recommend that you always have a, a just an clause, just like, "Hey, I don't—"

Well—

[00:19:11] Kati Spaniak: You just need to know it.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

[00:19:12] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:19:12] Kati Spaniak: And that's, a lot of agents, so what I see, I see a lot on the back end, I see a of sellers, a lot of sellers call me crying or emailing me about their agents.

And again, I never want to second—

[00:19:24] Tracy Hayes: You should be tracking all those. You can take the names but actually track all the reasons why—

Kati Spaniak: Oh.

[00:19:29] Tracy Hayes: —they're calling and complaining.

[00:19:29] Kati Spaniak: Well, I can—

[00:19:29] Tracy Hayes: 'Cause that's a whole—

[00:19:30] Kati Spaniak: I can you. I can tell you, and that's kind of why we got to where we are.

It's not the agents are bad at all. It's that they are not communicating with the sellers.

I had a seller who I helped refer on both the buy and the sell. She had my personal cell, and I already, she's texted me a lot. I already, I already know who she is, like, when we built this relationship.

I referred her to an agent, and the agent didn't respond to her text message within 12 hours on a weekend.

And—

[00:20:02] Tracy Hayes: Maybe she was on a cruise.

[00:20:03] Kati Spaniak: Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing, is did that agent set those expectations clearly before that text?

[00:20:12] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[00:20:12] Kati Spaniak: It was a holiday weekend.

Did the agent say, "I am going out of town," or did the agent say, "I usually don't work on Saturdays or Sundays, but I will try and respond within X amount of hours"?

And so everything I've been putting together for the agents is about communication.

And so I'm trying to get this upfront. Will you have a conversation with your clients about the cancellation policy before you sign the contract?

I'm not saying they're gonna cancel, and even if you don't have a cancellation policy, they need to know that. They need to to know that.

[00:20:44] Tracy Hayes: It takes, it takes away—in the sales—it takes away that, a remorse.

[00:20:49] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:20:49] Tracy Hayes: 'Cause they may walk away, they signed it, but they walk away and go, "Oh, what if I don't like them? How do get out of it?"

Now—

[00:20:54] Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

[00:20:55] Tracy Hayes: Now they have this anxiety. A—

[00:20:56] Kati Spaniak: And, the reason that most sellers choose agent is because they trust them. Bottom line, trust.

So if you get an inexperienced agent, an experienced agent, and there's, there has to be that trust in there because the, really the only time we're losing the referrals is when they have an agent who they trust, but they're usually not as experienced.

That is the only we're kinda losing.

And not—and not those.

So the trust is really important, and so we wanted the ability to say to these agents, "Listen, we expect—we're not telling you what to do with your business—but we want you to have a conversation with your client about your cancellation policy before they sign the contract."

Because the seller will call me and say, "I can't get out this contract," you know.

And I'll say to them, "Why don't you just talk to them this? Like, everything you're telling me, just tell them."

And they're like, "Well, my—I don't know—is out of town. I never can get ahold of them."

And I don't always believe that about our agents.

[00:21:55] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:56] Kati Spaniak: I, I don't always that. I always believe—

W—

[00:21:59] Tracy Hayes: We have a saying in, in the old call center days, "Buyers will be liars."

So—

[00:22:02] Kati Spaniak: You know—

[00:22:03] Tracy Hayes: Th—that's not always true—

Kati Spaniak: And they're emotional.

Tracy Hayes: —but of them will, 'cause they're trying to convince you.

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: In your case, you're kinda like mediator.

Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

Tracy Hayes: So they're trying to influence you as if it were having a, you know, a high school—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: You know?

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

[00:22:17] Kati Spaniak: Right.

You know, the other thing that we put in there—and didn't really go into what the is—but is what is your, ... or don't, you can't buy the listing.

And the listing means you go in and you give a high price, and newer agents don't necessarily know what that means.

They think they're doing the best service the client.

Experienced agents know if you price it at this, you will not get showings.

[00:22:41] Tracy Hayes: I'm try to look, try to look, to look more into the camera.

[00:22:43] Kati Spaniak: Oh, you want me to look in the camera?

[00:22:44] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, 'cause I think it comes across better.

[00:22:46] Kati Spaniak: Oh.

[00:22:47] Tracy Hayes: Okay. Yeah, 'cause when we cut shorts and you're looking right at them—

Kati Spaniak: Oh. Yes. Okay.

Tracy Hayes: Okay. Oh, no. No. Our, our conversation, we're both intense con—I—

[00:22:54] Kati Spaniak: I know.

[00:22:55] Tracy Hayes: —conversation. We, we look each other right in the eye. Okay. Look them in eye.

Kati Spaniak: Okay.

Tracy Hayes: But I'm looking you. In—

[00:22:58] Kati Spaniak: Then what am I, then what am I saying?

[00:23:00] Tracy Hayes: You're—you’re answering, answer here 'cause—

Kati Spaniak: Okay.

Tracy Hayes: 'Cause when we, we do cut to very valuable shorts, I know we're gonna get out of this.

[00:23:06] Kati Spaniak: Okay.

[00:23:06] Tracy Hayes: It comes across a lot better when you're, when you're looking right—

Kati Spaniak: Okay.

Tracy Hayes: —into them. Yeah. All right.

[00:23:10] Kati Spaniak: What was I talking—

[00:23:11] Tracy Hayes: About? There you go. Well, yeah. Now you lo—lost train of thought.

Let's, g—let's go—let's go through. L—we'll prob—we'll probably bring it up. I think, I think—

[00:23:22] Kati Spaniak: Were you talking about buying the listing?

[00:23:23] Tracy Hayes: Well, the buyer, you, the conversation of the buyer calling you and saying, "Hey—

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: —they're not, they're not communicating with me," and not.

And obviously that's a c—I think it's a confidence level from the agent, and an agent who's around the block is like, in the, the experience one that you're talking about is like, "Hey, this is how I do my business."

And obviously they, you refer them because they see way you do bus—and where the agent who says, "Yes, I'll communicate," but doesn't have those conversations up front is just at that tipping point in their, in their business where they feel confident to do it.

But you just listening to you here, i—if you're part of Katie's team, referral team, you should a convers—because sh—they've watched all your videos.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: They have expectations—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —of who referring.

[00:24:07] Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

[00:24:08] Tracy Hayes: They think, and i—think the, the client, the buy—the seller in case, the seller is getting referred, but they're still looking at Katie on the video.

[00:24:17] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:24:18] Tracy Hayes: Right?

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: So they expect that person to refer you is going to deliver to them, just if I go to the Chick-fil-A over there, I'm gonna get the same service as I get at the Chick-fil-A over here.

[00:24:26] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:24:26] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:24:27] Kati Spaniak: And what's so funny, I get a lot of people who ask me, "Who to me, I wish you were in my town."

[00:24:31] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:32] Kati Spaniak: And I'm like, "Well, I get fired, too." You know? I know if you'd be really happy with me.

So I side typically with the agents. Like, I am typically on the agent's side, but we do have s—I do have some bad stories—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —about agents that we've referred.

[00:24:48] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Well, as the volume goes out there, well, I think your network gonna get better.

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: And as the, as I actually had, you know, put in there as the success stories, as you're referring somebody, they have to realize even though you're here in Florida and they may be in Washington State, that—it still comes back on you.

That—

Kati Spaniak: Oh, yeah.

Tracy Hayes: —that person may, if they have really great service, refer, refer their friend to the agent you referred, possibly.

[00:25:14] Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

[00:25:15] Tracy Hayes: Or they're gonna tell their friend, "You need to watch Katie."

[00:25:17] Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

[00:25:18] Tracy Hayes: It could go either way.

[00:25:19] Kati Spaniak: It's a win-win all the way around.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: So what I'm gonna say, and I will talk to the agents right here, okay?

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: So this is what happens. We reach out to the agents through a couple different ways.

We start with email, we'll do a text, and we do a call, because a lot of people think that we're spam. They think I'm not real.

They're like, "Who is calling me saying, 'I have a referral for you'?" Like, this doesn't happen.

I know you get these companies that say, "I've got a referral," so I'll...

No, no, no.

We literally call and say, "I have a referral in your town."

Like, literally, "I know you sold the house down the street." That is how deep we are going.

And then they may not respond.

We're a little bit better now, now that we've got our system down, but we do keep following up until they kinda get back to us.

What happens is if they're rude to me, so if they come, they say, "Well, I don't know who are," or, "Is this a real referral?"

Or they say, "Are you referring a couple of agents or just me?"

Like, if they start—

Kati Spaniak: To act rude to me, or if the referral goes out them and then they're like, "I never agreed this. I never did this. I don't want this," they're done.

They go on our DNR, our DNR list, our do not refer list.

[00:26:22] Tracy Hayes: Is your referral agreement any much different than else’s?

[00:26:25] Kati Spaniak: I mean, it can be, depending—

[00:26:26] Tracy Hayes: Other than that they—

[00:26:27] Kati Spaniak: It can be, depending on who you are.

[00:26:29] Tracy Hayes: Hmm.

[00:26:29] Kati Spaniak: You know? I don't know. That's the whole thing, is everybody's business is run differently.

So I can't know that in your market, you—you don't do referrals for the buy and the sell. Like, we do the buy and the sell.

In our standard referral form, people get very upset sometimes, and they say, "You told me you were only gonna send me the list," and I'm like, "DNR."

And so the, the thing is, that we do multiple referrals to agents. Once they know us, once we know them, once they know the quality of the people that we're sending their way, th—it's a layup.

Yep.

And they're rude to me. Like, agents are so—I've had them hang up on me when I told them I a referral. I not kidding you. I had an agent, I'll tell you, East Coast is harder.

[00:27:16] Tracy Hayes: H—let's role play through that conversation.

[00:27:18] Kati Spaniak: Okay. Okay.

[00:27:19] Tracy Hayes: You're, you call me, and—

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: —and you say, y—uh, I pick up the phone. "Hello, this is Tracy."

[00:27:24] Kati Spaniak: "Oh, hey, Tracy. I have a, it's, you know, Katie Spaniak. I a listing referral for you in Jacksonville."

[00:27:30] Tracy Hayes: You just, you don't say, "This is Katie with eXp," or with—

[00:27:34] Kati Spaniak: Well, I—

[00:27:35] Tracy Hayes: Listen, I'm gonna be t—...

Truth, Truth in Real Estate or how—

[00:27:37] Kati Spaniak: I'm gonna be super transparent. Super—

Tracy Hayes: Transparent.

[00:27:38] Tracy Hayes: Because give it some sort of—

[00:27:39] Kati Spaniak: I'm gonna be super transparent. All right.

If I say it's with eXp, people think I'm recruiting them.

[00:27:44] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, I can see that.

[00:27:44] Kati Spaniak: Okay.

[00:27:45] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:27:45] Kati Spaniak: So, you know, I'll just say it's Katie Spaniak, I'm eXp or I'm with Truth in Real Estate.

You, it's got my signature on my—they've usually gotten three emails from us—

Tracy Hayes: There's phone call for—

Kati Spaniak: —before I call.

[00:27:54] Tracy Hayes: Oh, okay, so you are emailing them before you call. That—

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: —was gonna say—

[00:27:57] Kati Spaniak: Email, email. I was gonna say, so they—

[00:27:58] Tracy Hayes: They're—ex—

Kati Spaniak: We email—

[00:27:59] Kati Spaniak: Two or three—

[00:27:59] Tracy Hayes: —should be expecting your call.

[00:28:00] Kati Spaniak: We text, and then we call.

And I have a full-time person who's helping with the calls. It's three of us. I mean—

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: I, we know—I'm the one pulling the referrals, me and Lisa, so, so we know these people.

[00:28:09] Tracy Hayes: So it's really not a cold call if they're paying attention to their email or read their texts.

Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

Tracy Hayes: They're knowing that you'd be calling soon, and if they should be doing their due diligence—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —and looking you up.

[00:28:20] Kati Spaniak: Look me up. Like, I ask, like, look me up.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: I have a huge social footprint.

[00:28:25] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:28:25] Kati Spaniak: So, and I would say to them, "You know I have a listing referral."

Y—and they'd say, "Now why are you calling me and you're not calling somebody from eXp?"

So I usually, I'll take deep breath and I'll say, "Well, is the eXp agent in your town the best agent?"

They're like, "Well, obviously not. I'm calling you."

"Well, that's why I'm not calling an eXp agent and I'm calling you."

I'm, I'm serious.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: Like, these, this is real. Like, I've—a little exasperated at this point because like, "Oh my gosh, just look up, okay?"

[00:28:53] Tracy Hayes: Well, I think the—not to them, because this is a poor excuse for them—

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: —in my opinion, that you might get a, you might be g—this might be, you know, or two referrals that you give out all—they don't realize you've created a machine here.

[00:29:06] Kati Spaniak: Thousands.

[00:29:07] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. You're, you're—

Kati Spaniak: Thousands.

Tracy Hayes: —giving these out all over, so you're perfecting your referral craft. It's a—

[00:29:11] Kati Spaniak: System, yes.

[00:29:11] Tracy Hayes: You're not, "Hey, you know, a friend of mine wants to sell their house in Washington State."

No.

"I'm referring it to you."

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: "Just pay me when it closes."

I think that's the level that most agents are at.

Kati Spaniak: They are.

Tracy Hayes: They don't understand that this is a business you've created.

[00:29:23] Kati Spaniak: Right. So, you know, we—we've done thousands and thousands and thousands of referrals, and so when we, we already know you.

If I've referred to you out there, we know you because I've stalked you.

Like, I know you, I know your team, I know all this about you already.

And, and then the agents will be like, you know, "Do you wanna get on a call?" I'm like, "No. I, no."

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: I'm like, "No."

But we're sending them sellers who are really understanding the intricacies of selling a home, so are usually very good.

Now, the one I am gonna say out there to the world is that we do refer however many agents typically that the seller wants.

So we'll refer one or two agents. Most people want at least two.

And early on, I was only referring one, only referring one agent. And the problem became that the agent forgot that I them a referral, and then the agent never fel—followed up, and I lost the referral.

So to agents who are referring out there, I want you to keep in mind that if you only refer to one person, could possibly lose that deal.

So we refer two agents, and sometimes we refer agents that are complementary.

One has sold a lot, maybe a little bit further out, and one has sold a lot in that area.

So it's important because not every fit is a fit, and the best agents that we to—they're like, "Bring it on."

[00:30:43] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:30:43] Kati Spaniak: Like, they're like, "Bring it on."

[00:30:45] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:30:45] Kati Spaniak: You know? I'll, yeah, I can win listing you send me to.

[00:30:48] Tracy Hayes: 'Cause they, they know statistically going to get most of the listings they got because of the service and their confidence or whatever.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: And they're gonna go in and do a great presentation, and again, like you said, there's personalities clash, and it—

Only referring—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —to one, as you probably have experienced in this, that one person doesn't follow up when they should, and they go, "Oh, Katie's referral's not calling me. Let me just call this agent over here."

[00:31:09] Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

[00:31:10] Tracy Hayes: And you don't get—

[00:31:10] Kati Spaniak: Anything. Ex—that's exactly it.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: And so I'm trying to build this community of agents who understand, like, the significance of what we're doing here, because these sellers put their faith me.

I have a very large Facebook group just for sellers, and I am communicating with them every day, and they are at a very difficult time in their lives.

And so I need to make sure I'm putting them in the hands of somebody who gets that.

And creating the Protect the Seller Circle is, was our first start of that.

That's why we started that, and it's a win-win for the industry and for us to be able to give out great referrals.

[00:31:47] Tracy Hayes: All right. I think you, I think it was there f—there was five pillars, right?

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: We started with experience.

[00:31:51] Kati Spaniak: Yes.

[00:31:52] Tracy Hayes: What's next on that list?

[00:31:53] Kati Spaniak: Next is marketing.

Tracy Hayes: Mm.

Kati Spaniak: So marketing, it, I consider to be listing photos.

[00:31:58] Tracy Hayes: Primarily.

[00:31:59] Kati Spaniak: Yeah. Are they hiring—that's our very first, that's our very first, very first look, is if they do not have good listing photos, they are completely not referred ever.

Like, ever.

[00:32:12] Tracy Hayes: So you're going through maybe some of their current listings and seeing how well they're doing these things—

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: —again, to get on, to be possibly someone that you're gonna invite.

[00:32:19] Kati Spaniak: Yes.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: Because the thing is that we choose an agent who has poor listing photos, and then they put it out to the world and they say, "Katie referred us this agent."

And I'm like, "Yeah."

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: So listing photos is, is really key.

Now, marketing includes, and can include social media, you know, just kind of how their website presents.

A lot agents don't have a Google Business page, which is kinda like, we like to be able to put in the agent's name online and see what their social footprint is, to see what their footprint is.

And if the agent comes back and it's only one page on their brokerage as their website, that's an issue.

Now, that's not as bad as the no listing photos, but that's a really big deal if they don't have an actual website or a webpage.

But when I get that agent with experience, and then I'm like, "Okay, now photos," and now it's a full, like, website, I'm like, "Okay, now we're just looking to see if this agent has specifically sold in that area."

So after that, now we're looking at team structure.

[00:33:21] Tracy Hayes: So is, are on to number three?

[00:33:22] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm. Number three is team structure.

[00:33:24] Tracy Hayes: Team structure.

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: If they, if they're on a team or a solo agent or maybe just a, a, good solo with a transaction coordinator, maybe an assistant or something like that could be a team.

Kati Spaniak: Team. Correct.

Like, we don't have to have them have a transaction coordinator.

But referred an agent to a seller and the agent I knew was very, very busy. 'Cause you can tell, and see, this agent is super, super busy.

Went on their website, did not have any structure, no admin support, nothing.

And I reached out to that agent and I actually asked, "How do you actually your team? Because I you're the best agent there, but are you too busy?"

So, like, we get that, too.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: Are they doing too many buyers versus sellers? Are they on a big team where then they're gonna hand it off to an agent who has no experience?

Like, this is how deep go in there, we're looking at their team.

And I say team in quotes. I'm not saying, like, team, you have to have team, but if you're too busy and you have no support, I'm not referring you. That seller will not get that experience.

And also, we ask our sellers, "How much hand-holding do you need?"

If it's a 10 out of 10, we cannot send them to the team in the area because they're gonna get handed off to somebody who we don't know.

So then I might look at somebody and say, "Okay, this agent is maybe a little longer in the business, has enough experience. They are not working as hard as the team, the winning in this area, but they're gonna get personalized attention, and this agent knows what they're doing."

[00:34:47] Tracy Hayes: Well, might be the pace they like to work at.

[00:34:48] Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

[00:34:49] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm. All right, so team, what's next?

[00:34:52] Kati Spaniak: Next, now as we go up the—it gets a little harder, right?

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: Like, you could at the bottom, the experience is easy, the listings are easy, even the website is a little bit easy.

But you—now we're looking at professionalism and honesty, or kind of like an integrity, integrity.

And one of the ways we do that is, first of all, we look their copy on their website.

Now, I know many people are like, "We're just gonna put this copy on, you know, I—sell estate, I've been here for and such years."

The copy that really resonates for me, for my people, they're usually over 55, it's something personal.

Not like, "I was in another industry and then I started doing this." Like, a lot of agents do that. No one cares.

Like, we know about your business now and what makes you different and what makes you n—unique.

And so more about—I am committed to, let's say, putting the homeowner first. I provide professional and personalized service through X, Y, and Z.

Like, that not mean a lot to the general public, but to me, when I'm looking and I'm to match, I'm like, "Yeah, okay. This person—"

[00:36:01] Tracy Hayes: They took a few minutes to kind of spell out.

[00:36:04] Kati Spaniak: Yes.

[00:36:05] Tracy Hayes: And it should do, I would think, would you agree with it, like if you're, you ever studied interviewing and how to be interviewed or how to an interview, when you ask a question, want them to respond with, "Yes, blah, blah, blah, and here's when I did it."

[00:36:17] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:36:18] Tracy Hayes: Are looking for that, an actual kind of an more an example, or who's describing this specialized, personalized service if they're t—saying that's what they're offering?

[00:36:29] Kati Spaniak: I, I'm looking for something personal.

Not personal like, "I have kids," not like that.

I'm for something that makes them almost emotionally intelligent.

[00:36:40] Tracy Hayes: Sort of a mission statement almost.

[00:36:42] Kati Spaniak: Don't, ca—kind, yeah. They need it. Like, who are they? Like, not every agent is the same.

[00:36:46] Tracy Hayes: What do they stand for, right?

[00:36:47] Kati Spaniak: What do they stand for? It's the same in, in business. Where's their strengths, you know? Not, "You serve everybody."

No, you serve what community, you know?

Like, go deep. Give us a little bit more than standard brokerage blurb on your brokerage website.

There are a of people when it comes between X and Y agent that we will choose the agent that has a better written copy.

I know it's hard to believe, but they've already gotten up that level of the ladder—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —of the pyramid.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: And so if they're there and we've got two that we're choosing from, we're go with the one that spent in a little bit time.

Now, the other thing to really... Gosh, I, I have so much stuff I could tell agents. Like, so much, because we've looked, we've stalked you.

I mean, like, we know you.

And so it's the little things that, it's the little things that we see that you may not think are important, and one of those is reviews, 'cause we look at reviews, okay?

So this kind of goes into the honesty, the integrity.

We almost don't care if there's a negative review, because we know how consumers can be.

It's whether or not you've answered and responded to that review.

[00:37:55] Tracy Hayes: Hmm.

[00:37:56] Kati Spaniak: We can tell—

[00:37:57] Tracy Hayes: Responding to reviews, that's a good one.

[00:37:58] Kati Spaniak: Well, it's how you respond to the review.

Like, I don't even care if that buyer, seller was a nasty, crazy person. We all know we get them, right?

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: It's how do you respond knowing that your brand is out there. How are you responding from your brand?

And I will tell you, there have been times where Lisa's working in her—I'm working in mine, I'll screenshot a review answer, and I'll say, "This is a permanent no," right?

And be like—

[00:38:25] Tracy Hayes: "Yeah." Give, give, give me an example.

Let's say someone g—a negative review—

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: —and you're seeing about, you're looking at how the agent responded to the negative review.

W—

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: What, what, what would that look like?

[00:38:34] Kati Spaniak: So the—

[00:38:35] Tracy Hayes: What would be a one and what would be a good one?

[00:38:37] Kati Spaniak: So any of them can be bad.

Like, anybody say anything bad, okay?

It's whether or not they're saying, like, something personal.

I think when they hit the personal side, then the agent responds personally.

So let's say the seller says, the says, "This was the worst experience of my life. I have never been treated poor—more than I was with Susan."

Like, literally it's out there.

So now we're looking to see, first of all, if the agent—because an emotionally intelligent agent knows you can't leave that up.

Like, you can't take it down. Like, can't get rid of it.

But an emotionally intelligent agent is like, "Okay, I need to in the best way possible this."

[00:39:16] Tracy Hayes: This is where AI comes in really good.

[00:39:18] Kati Spaniak: Well, you can tell. You can tell it's written by AI.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: I wanna see something that is like—

[00:39:24] Tracy Hayes: Well, AI filtering your, like, you wanna say—

Kati Spaniak: Correct.

Tracy Hayes: —"You, or you were a really poor customer and you were a jerk."

Kati Spaniak: Correct.

Tracy Hayes: You go, "AI, soften this down," you know, whatever—

Kati Spaniak: Correct.

Tracy Hayes: —and it helps you.

[00:39:35] Kati Spaniak: So what we've seen is an agent will say, "I told you at the time this was not gonna work."

You—something like that.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

[00:39:41] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[00:39:41] Kati Spaniak: Like, "You did this when I told you to do this. I tried to get you to do this, and then you did this."

And we're like, "Just say, 'I'm so sorry you had this experience. This is not typical of our performance. I would love to have a conversation you offline.'"

Like, if somebody responds like that—

[00:40:00] Tracy Hayes: Totally disarms them.

[00:40:01] Kati Spaniak: Yeah. And shows me that, okay, this agent can some conflict.

Because, yeah, be stressful and irritating as an agent.

So when the agent responds poorly or is just jerk, they go on our DNR list.

We have a full DNR list, and if I've given you a referral and you've been rude to me, you are on my DNR list, and you will not get back on because you were rude.

And saying that with a of anger—

[00:40:23] Tracy Hayes: Hmm.

[00:40:23] Kati Spaniak: —because we've been doing this—

Tracy Hayes: Well—

[00:40:25] Tracy Hayes: You don't like to put anyone on the DNR, the DNR list.

[00:40:27] Kati Spaniak: No, I do. You, you—

[00:40:27] Tracy Hayes: You do. You, you don't—

[00:40:28] Kati Spaniak: You know what, I know why I do? Let me you why I do. Let me tell you why I do.

Because if they're rude me, they're gonna be rude to everybody else.

[00:40:33] Tracy Hayes: Oh, well, you don't want anyone to be rude is what I'm saying.

[00:40:36] Kati Spaniak: I do not respond—I want, I only agents in my circle who are respectful.

They don't have to like me, they don't have to agree with me, they don't to run their business the way I do, but they do not have to be rude.

They do not hang up on me.

And are truthful and honest, you know?

And so I want to weed out the industry of these agents. I hate to say it.

[00:40:57] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. I—

[00:40:57] Kati Spaniak: I mean, I do.

[00:40:58] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

So we talked about a, a positive response. We talked about a negative to a, to a negative comment, which both...

And you know what, the word came to me earlier when we were talking about these potential sellers are your videos and why they like it, 'cause I think you speak a lot of...

It's common sense. Common sense. When you think about it—

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: —it is common sense.

Don't always put all of our common into one basket all the time, unfortunately.

[00:41:25] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[00:41:26] Tracy Hayes: All right. So you get a positive review.

[00:41:28] Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

[00:41:29] Tracy Hayes: What is something that you're looking for that should strive for to improve, because they should respond them as well, but it's positive situation.

But what are, what are you particularly looking for to show the level that you're looking for is in the—

[00:41:43] Kati Spaniak: So we're looking for a response.

Like, okay, I know how it goes because I've got a b—business page.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: Let's say we're using that. Is that—

So let's say I'm looking, and I've got an agent hits the experience, an agent that hits the marketing, agent that hits the team structure.

Now we're getting into the, you know, professionalism and integrity.

I see a—an agent with 50 Google reviews, and every single one of them has been answered. "Thank you so much. I loved working with you."

That means that agent is not busy, and that means that agent knows how to make that customer feel good.

[00:42:19] Tracy Hayes: That's important to them.

[00:42:20] Kati Spaniak: That is—

[00:42:21] Tracy Hayes: Important. Yep.

[00:42:22] Kati Spaniak: And so that is, once I see that, once I'm up this pyramid, I'm like, "This is going be somebody we will continue to refer to ongoing."

It's not an agent who cheaps out. It's not an agent who is just trying to get by.

Like, I want agents in this industry, not, not just in my circle, I want agents in this industry that understand power they have with what they're doing.

The they give can cost people thousands and thousands of dollars.

Tracy Hayes: Mm.

Kati Spaniak: And some agents don't get it. They don't get it.

And I this from the sellers. They're upset. They're crying. They're like, "My agent did this to me."

And I'm like, "That, that was not good."

Well—

[00:42:57] Tracy Hayes: Because it's so hard to see actual monetization.

It's not like, okay, we've got this shirt, you've got the same shirt. Or one of these, a vehicle I can buy on four different lots in town right now. I can buy the same Chrysler minivan—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —for example. The—I can monetize 'cause he sold it for that much, sold it for that much and around.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: When it down to the house and $10,000 swing, you don't know, 'cause don't have another house at that address to measure it to.

[00:43:26] Kati Spaniak: Right. Exactly. Exactly.

So I want agents to be more compassionate, more understanding.

And for the most part, they are.

I do believe that we have more good agents than not good agents in this i—I say good, great, you know, same thing. You know what I'm saying.

I believe we have really great people in this industry, and what I believe has been missing is this putting, putting the client, putting the consumer first, which we all know, like we all know we do that, we know we're supposed to do that, but nobody ever has come out and said, "This is what I'm doing. I am putting the consumer and I am that and putting that in writing that going to put the consumer first."

And that's why we created the—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —Protect the Seller Circle.

[00:44:12] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm. I think it's, because everyone's doing it a l—a little bit differently, but having interviewed well over 300 top-producing agents, I can compile that it in my AI, it could align what category.

They, it a different way—

[00:44:27] Kati Spaniak: They said it a different way.

[00:44:28] Tracy Hayes: And, and they didn't—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —they didn't realize the way they say it, or way they do it is, is really actually the same way you're doing it.

You just say it differently, and they're, it doesn't necessarily match word for word, but it actually—their intentions and actions are the same.

[00:44:40] Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

So I believe that people out there are doing this, but there's never been a concerted effort or a movement to put this first to the sellers, to the industry, to consumers, to say, "Listen, I have now have a group of..."

Right now, we're at hundreds.

We have hundreds of agents who have committed to the Protect the Seller Circle so far, and they have in writing, put in writing that they are going to put their consumer first.

They are going to be transparent. They are always gonna tell the truth. They're never gonna buy the listing, and they're gonna have honest conversations before they take the listing.

And they can take this piece of paper to their listing appointment, and it, it's for every agent out there to go to their listing appointment and say, "I have put this in writing. I am putting you first. I am going to tell you the truth."

And just by opening up this, it's going to change the perception of our industry.

And one thing I'll tell you is that when I started the Protect the Seller Circle with Lisa, and we, we're like, "We are putting this out there. We are going to get agents to sign this, sign this," you know?

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: I mean, like—

[00:45:44] Tracy Hayes: 'Cause they want another referral from you, or they want this referral, right?

Whatever. Whatever. 'Cause I imagine you send it off with the—

[00:45:48] Kati Spaniak: Referral agreement. Devon, they don't have to sign it. They don't have to sign it.

[00:45:51] Tracy Hayes: Okay.

[00:45:51] Kati Spaniak: But when we first sent it out, and we haven't done a huge push yet, but when we first sent it out, the top agents, the v—very top agents in our database were the first ones to sign.

Very f—I mean, we have agents who have sold 1,000, 2,000, 4,000 homes.

They were the first ones to sign. They were the first ones to say, "Oh, my gosh. We totally need this."

[00:46:13] Tracy Hayes: I think this goes back, one of the things that I've picked up—is I think a lot of agents are only in a 90-day window.

That person that's broken through and is, and has shown, you know, and delivers a service, you—as your program describes, they're like, "Yeah, I've got 4,000 sales because I've learned to do my business that way."

Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

Tracy Hayes: "And I've learned it pays off in a long-term game."

[00:46:36] Kati Spaniak: Exactly. So it's, it's a win-win.

And the agents, 'cause you had asked before we started—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —and you'd said, "Well, somebody can lie about this."

Well, sure they can lie. Like, but they might, but they may never have been told by their brokerage, and they certainly not by their association.

I mean, I can go into the whole thing about associations.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: But they've never actually had this put up in front and say, "We're protecting the consumer."

And it's, oh, well, yeah, of course we are. All are. That is what we're doing.

Now it's just somebody taking all that and directing it in a way to put it out to the industry, to put it out to, to put it out to the United States—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —and say, "We are committed. There are agents who are committed. There are agents are as passionate about this as me, that we are going to say this upfront. We are going to tell people, scream it from the rooftops, 'I am an honest agent, and I am telling you this is how you know you can trust me.'"

[00:47:28] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Yeah.

You used a term, and I asked you, but I wanted, I want you to define o—buy the listing.

[00:47:35] Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

[00:47:35] Tracy Hayes: Define that for our audience.

[00:47:37] Kati Spaniak: Yeah. Buying the listing is when you go in and you know the price might not be quite right, but the seller wants more money, and so you say, "Oh, sure, you know, I think we can list at that."

Example is, let's say the house is, you think worth maybe 600, and the agent says, "No," or, and the seller says, "No, I want, you know, 700 for the home."

And you're like, "Ooh, that's really not work, but you know what? Okay, I guess we'll try it. You know, yeah, that's fine."

Or you know that you're up against a couple other agents and you're like, "Know what? I can get 700 for it."

And listen, I know, I know the games. I know the games that agents play.

They're gonna get them into a long-term contract, and then they're going to get these sellers to reduce the price.

So they feel like, "Hey, I'm gonna start high."

Now, there are l—most agents I don't think this, who understand.

New agents do this by accident. New agents buy the by accident, 'cause they just don't understand the real pricing concepts.

It's the experienced agents that know, "I'm not buying listing," and so that's one of the things, is you cannot the listing.

Now, a new agent who comes in, signs my, you know, Protect the Seller Circle document is gonna be like, "Hmm, buying the listing? Well, what does that really mean?"

And so it, it's educating in themselves.

"Oh, talk about my cancellation policy? Oh, gosh, I've never really thought about it. Yeah, I mean, you can cancel your listing with me at any time, I guess. Yeah, okay. Yeah, no fees."

Like, it is.

But it's putting the communication for—first and foremost in front of...

I—it's a conversation starter—

[00:49:06] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:49:07] Kati Spaniak: —basically is what it is.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:49:08] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Well, have you experienced in the... 'Cause like I said, a lot of your people that you're referring an agent to, they've watched your videos, how to price out the home, all this stuff.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: So when your, this agent comes over, how often do you have a situation where maybe that r—y—I don't know if you've had this conversation with your, the refer—the person you, the agent you referred.

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: And you go—they call you back and say, "Yeah, I went out and comped it out. It's 600," and they insist on me listing it at 700, and—but you don't want me to buy the listing," which I agree with.

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: But, you know, what, how do you handle that?

[00:49:42] Kati Spaniak: That is, I love this question.

So—we can tell from intake forms who's gonna be a difficult seller, and who's not gonna be.

And so we are aware of who we're referring it to, and if we think there's gonna be a difficult seller, we'll usually tell the agent, "We think this person might be difficult."

We do not take referrals from... We will just give them the name of an agent if somebody just wants a very low commission or they're really difficult on their pricing.

So we get that out of the way.

Like, we don't even, we don't wanna hurt our agent referrals. We don't wanna hurt our agents by giving them poor referrals.

So if an agent me and says, "I'm so sorry," and they do do this, you know—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —they'll call me and they'll say, "I'm so sorry. They, they want a really high price. I just, I don't have time, the energy, the money to spend on this," and they feel bad because I've given them the referral.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Kati Spaniak: I will tell them, "You're going on our, on our list."

Like, that conversation alone with me means that that agent is going to put the consumer before themselves.

[00:50:36] Tracy Hayes: High-level integrity.

[00:50:37] Kati Spaniak: High-level integrity.

They have the emotional intelligence, and they call me and they say that, and I do, I say, "Then we don't want you to take the listing."

And I'll tell the seller.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: I'll t—I'll tell the seller, too.

[00:50:48] Tracy Hayes: All right. So we got experience, marketing, team, professionalism. You said there was five.

[00:50:52] Kati Spaniak: Gut.

[00:50:53] Tracy Hayes: Gut. Explain that.

[00:50:56] Kati Spaniak: So—

[00:50:56] Tracy Hayes: Your gut feeling or their gut feeling? Well—

[00:50:58] Kati Spaniak: That's—

Tracy Hayes: Whose gut feeling are we talking—

Kati Spaniak: That's why at the, that's, that's why it's at the top of the pyramid.

So it's at the top of the pyramid because what, what I'm saying to sellers is that I am going to vet these four other parts of the pyramid for you.

I'm gonna give you these four.

For sure experience, know, the marketing, the team. The professionalism might be a little bit harder, you know, in what they're writing in their copy.

You are going with gut.

So when we put agents in front of the seller, they are only having to go with gut.

Do they like this person and do they connect with this person?

Are their personalities combined working together or not?

When the seller sits down, we want them to feel like their only choice is trust, their only choice is compatibility, and that is typically how sellers usually choose originally.

They choose based on their gut, and they ignore the rest of the pyramid.

So we're putting that, we're flipping that, we're saying, "The agents we put in front of you, you're only gonna have to go with your gut."

And that, that relieves a lot of stress for them.

And what I would say to agents is that not everyone is a fit.

Like, sometimes it's not a fit with you and with the seller.

Like, the personalities may clash, and that's okay.

Like, we'll still refer you.

It just may not be a fit with that agent or that seller.

[00:52:18] Tracy Hayes: One of the questions here, I think we followed up here, and we could pull it back up here.

The seller out your form. Walk me through what exactly the next hour by hour until they're talking to an agent.

What is the process by there?

They've been watching videos and so forth.

Whether they're selling tomorrow, they wanna list tomorrow, or they're gonna list two years from now.

They're filling out your form.

How you process it, and get them that agent?

[00:52:42] Kati Spaniak: So this is—

[00:52:42] Tracy Hayes: Really—besides doing the, you've already done that. We'll just assume the five steps are—

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: —already in there. You don't—

[00:52:47] Kati Spaniak: Have to go through those again. So it's, it's really difficult.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: Like, this is one of the reasons why, if anybody's out there saying, "Oh, I wanna do this," you have to be prepared to lose your local business.

Like, I started all my referral stuff, I didn't realize it was gonna lose my local business.

And so you have to able to do that. You have to be able to lose that business.

This is very difficult because you have to track a seller and you have to track multiple agents, one agent, two agents, and you don't know the agents.

So what happens is when the seller gets to this point, usually already know me, and they're me already.

They downloaded my free resources. They've watched hundreds of hours of my video, videos.

And so when they fill out the form, they're getting an automated text and an email, just basically, "We're gonna find somebody for you within..."

U—we usually say business days, but usually able to turn it around, if it's a—we're able to turn it around within 12 hours.

Usually 24 hours is kind of where we like to be.

This—

[00:53:42] Tracy Hayes: Well, and I assume in areas where you've already referred and have agents already hot to trot, you can get it out there quick.

[00:53:48] Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

So we individually ask every agent on every single referral.

So if you get an email from me, or if you've gotten an email from me, that's because we actually you based upon the zip code that came in.

And so then we have a very intensive database and a very extreme CRM system that we basically had to build ourselves, 'cause was nothing off the shelf that could do this.

And so we have a very significant process with emails, and then we have a, like I said, a full-time person who's up with texts and phone calls.

You know, and every single agent who answers us may say, "Oh, maybe I'm too busy," or, you know, "I want a lower r—referral commission," or, "No, I'm not working here anymore," something like that.

We have to track all those individual responses because don't wanna go back that person again—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —in a year, if they've already told us that.

So basically then once we get the...

I'll tell you how we actually do it.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: Which we've gone back and forth on the pros and cons of this, is that it's very hard to refer because we don't know them.

We don't know their truth. We don't know their honesty. We don't know.

So we get an email with their approval that they want the referral at whatever percentage.

So we get that in writing.

Now, in our industry, there is a problem because unless you have a signed referral agreement, you don't have to pay.

So the problem is that people don't think I'm real, so if were to send them a referral agreement to sign, they're not clicking on it.

So we said, "Okay, we're gonna go on the truth and the honesty model," is that if an agent, "Yeah, I'm gonna pay you," they're gonna pay me.

Like, that is, we built that into our model.

After they agree, we make the introduction, and then we send the referral agreement, because now they know we're real, we have a real referral, and now they're willing sign something that came an unknown source.

Now there's a lot of follow-up and a lot of tracking, because you've got the seller as your client, or do you have agent as your client, or do you have two agents as your clients?

[00:55:49] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:50] Kati Spaniak: So just a lot of tracking. It's a lot of stress that kind of goes into it.

[00:55:55] Tracy Hayes: I mean, any, at any one time, I mean, like right now, how many active referrals got out there?

'Cause, obv—some of these people you've talked and you say, "Hey, what's your timeline? I'm looking to s—I'm real—I'm ready to list my now."

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: "I, we just got transferred or whatever, and we need to be out of here in, you know, 60, 90 days."

How many hot-to-trots do you typically got going on at any one around the country that are between your r—the time you it off to an agent—

[00:56:19] Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

[00:56:20] Tracy Hayes: —but still haven't closed yet?

[00:56:21] Kati Spaniak: Well, see, that's the problem, is you don't really know.

And don't know because the agent on the other side kind of forgot who we are.

They know, "Oh yeah, I got this referral from this agent. I, I don't remember the name of that agent, but I know I gotta pay that agent."

And so they're not updating us. They're not following up with us.

Tracy Hayes: Mm.

Kati Spaniak: Even when we're emailing them, they're like, "I don't know."

Or get an email, I got this today, I saw this agent said to me in an email a year ago, said they've decided not to sell.

Well, we—it went listed yesterday.

So, so—

[00:56:48] Tracy Hayes: You're off the truth then, integrity list, right?

[00:56:51] Kati Spaniak: No, but—but no, but the reason we, we know it was listed is because the assistant sent us an email.

So—

[00:56:57] Tracy Hayes: Oh, it's the agent.

[00:56:58] Kati Spaniak: The agent remembered. Or co—

But we see a lot, we see a lot where agent doesn't remember.

[00:57:03] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:03] Kati Spaniak: Now, all right, I'm gonna tell you a story about w—the kind of main reason we started the Protect the Seller Circle was because this whole, you know, truth, integrity.

And we sent a referral to this agent who responded, and was about a year, year and a half ago, a response saying, "I met with this seller. The seller has had the house listed too high. Very difficult client. Me to list it too high. I am declining this referral. I will not be accepting this referral."

And I said, "Wow, okay. Really appreciate that. Thank you so much."

And she was—she wrote in this, she said, "My ethics know that I got this referral you, and I told the seller that. I told the seller that I would not," this is all in writing, "I would not have gotten this referral if it were not for you."

In writing. This all in writing.

Agreed to the amount, declined the referral, and then we just went our way because was I gonna force her to sign that referral agreement?

She declined to sign the referral agreement because—

Tracy Hayes: That's—

Kati Spaniak: —she declined the in general.

[00:58:01] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Done.

[00:58:02] Kati Spaniak: So she ended up closing on that property.

And so we found out, and I said, "My gosh—"

Kati Spaniak: This is so amazing. Like, you. Us—you were declining the referral, and then they came back to you.

And said, "I don't owe you this referral fee. I signed the referral."

And I was like, "But you wrote in writing you would not represent this person."

[00:58:20] Tracy Hayes: I, I—it's gotta be an ethics violation at any board.

[00:58:23] Kati Spaniak: You would think. You would think, right?

So now, and we're everything in our, in our business model.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: So we have to follow everything, see where it goes, and—

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: —you know, and we made a lot of mistakes, but this one I was like, "Okay, I am gonna test this. I am gonna, I'm gonna..."

First, so first I did is I hired an attorney to review the contracts to see where we were at, and it was in a different state, and there's a lot of brokerage and license law issues.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: But wanted to see where my legal grounds were, and attorney did say, this is a binding contract. It is a binding contract.

In the world of real estate—

[00:58:54] Tracy Hayes: It's the binding con—'cause didn't sign the, the actual referral agreement.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: But the emails back and forth—

[00:58:59] Kati Spaniak: It was, it—

[00:58:59] Tracy Hayes: —created a contract.

[00:59:00] Kati Spaniak: It was an agreement. It was an agreement.

An actual agreement because we went back and forth and it was in writing. And in a court—

[00:59:06] Tracy Hayes: Right. Not a f—it was the emails that you were using as—

Kati Spaniak: Correct.

Tracy Hayes: —the agreement. You both went back and... Okay.

[00:59:10] Kati Spaniak: Correct. It was not referral—

Tracy Hayes: Very cool.

Kati Spaniak: —agreement.

Tracy Hayes: Okay.

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm. So because declined the referral. She said she wasn't gonna work with this person.

Tracy Hayes: Right.

Kati Spaniak: I—what am I gonna hound people and chase them down and then ruin relationship with them?

[00:59:21] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, I mean, what did they say? I mean—

[00:59:22] Kati Spaniak: She would've been like, "I, I'm not taking this client."

So I got my attorney involved, and we did. We tried to see how this would go.

So we had our attorney reach out, do a letter to their brokerage, and the managing broker came back laughing and said, "You're not gonna get this because you don't have a signed referral agreement."

And my attorney's like, "We don't need a signed referral agreement, we have, you know—"

[00:59:43] Tracy Hayes: Exchange.

[00:59:43] Kati Spaniak: "We have this exchange."

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: Well, the problem is that in our industry we have to go to mediation, and we have to go to arbitration, and that's in a lot of the association bylaws.

Am I gonna take her to small claims court or am I going to sue in court when we already have this path, right?

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: We already have this path for agents already to do this.

This is already there, arbitration, mediation, it can work.

So I was like, "All right, fine, I'll go to the state."

And they said, "Well, you will be able to file for mediation."

I said, "Okay, why not?"

Why do you think?

[01:00:14] Tracy Hayes: 'Cause you're not in the state.

[01:00:15] Kati Spaniak: No.

[01:00:16] Tracy Hayes: No. I have no idea.

[01:00:17] Kati Spaniak: I didn't have a signed referral agreement.

So I could not to mediation because they only accept into mediation people who have signed referral agreements.

There is no other discussion in their association, up state association ladder, to have to have a, mediation—

[01:00:32] Tracy Hayes: This is the brill—this is the, and this is brilliance of, they don't know until they know, right?

So no one actually played game and said, "Well, what if they refuse the referral then turn around and still sold the house?"

That's the obvious, like, that would be an obvious complaint if you're sitting there going as what they're supposed to do is the game of chess and say, you know, when writing these laws or writing these things—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —if someone left out, what if they refuse and then turn around and sell the hou—

[01:00:57] Kati Spaniak: That's what I said. That's what I said to their attorney.

[01:00:59] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:00] Kati Spaniak: I said, "So you mean to tell me"—

Tracy Hayes: Mm.

Kati Spaniak: —and in our industry, you may not know quite how it works—

Tracy Hayes: Mm.

Kati Spaniak: —you send a referral form with the contact's information on it.

So, like, you send it, and, and eXp has a little bit different way of doing it now, which is good, but you send it with name of the contact on there.

So, like, this could happen all the time.

Okay, so now I'm like, "You've gotta be kidding me."

And they, "No, we won't even allow it to be brought to mediation 'cause you don't have a signed referral agreement."

And I said, "Okay."

They said, "You can file an ethics complaint."

I said, "Okay, is that gonna get me my money?"

And they said, "Well, probably not, because you can't file an ethics complaint about compensation."

So I was like, all right, I'm going full force.

I'm see—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —how this goes.

[01:01:43] Tracy Hayes: Right? Yeah, yeah.

[01:01:44] Kati Spaniak: You know, I have to test out.

[01:01:45] Tracy Hayes: You do, 'cause is your business.

[01:01:46] Kati Spaniak: Right, so—

[01:01:47] Tracy Hayes: So I—this is, it's gonna come up again.

[01:01:48] Kati Spaniak: So I file, I file the ethics complaint. It comes back denied.

Denied. Denied.

So I'm left with this, they said that she broke no ethical rules.

[01:02:00] Tracy Hayes: Hometown court.

[01:02:02] Kati Spaniak: Nope.

[01:02:03] Tracy Hayes: That's what it sounds like. Maybe.

[01:02:04] Kati Spaniak: That's what it sounds like to me. Maybe.

It's a state association, though. This is not, this was not the local association.

Tracy Hayes: Mm.

Kati Spaniak: I would not expect that they would know her.

I know they have a process.

[01:02:12] Tracy Hayes: Oh, okay.

[01:02:12] Kati Spaniak: And they said they, she broke no ethical rules.

So I have her agreement. She literally in her email wrote me and said, "I would have this if not for you."

And said, "Well, you don't have a signed agreement."

Her managing broker said, "You don't have a signed agreement."

Their attorney said, "You don't have a signed agreement."

The association said, "You don't have a signed agreement."

[01:02:31] Tracy Hayes: So, you obviously have learned from this.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: How do you handle this now?

[01:02:36] Kati Spaniak: Well, we know we're gonna have falloff. We know that there will be some agents who are not ethical.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: We know that.

[01:02:42] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:02:42] Kati Spaniak: And we want agents who are ethical, who are honest, who are transparent, and what comes around goes around in this industry.

Yeah. Yeah.

And any agent out there is gonna completely agree with what I'm saying.

[01:02:53] Tracy Hayes: Well, as I, I've always said, y—you know, in my mortgage world, you—there's little things that we do to, and, you people get in trouble for.

It's not worth one deal.

I don't care how—

Kati Spaniak: Not.

Tracy Hayes: —big it is.

It's not that, are you willing to cause—you don't know, she doesn't know that not getting three or four phone calls from that town every year.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: And she could have just paid you the first time and s—got four more deals—

Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

Tracy Hayes: —in the next 12 months from you.

[01:03:18] Kati Spaniak: Exactly. And that's—

Tracy Hayes: It, it's so stupid.

[01:03:20] Tracy Hayes: It's so shortsighted—

Kati Spaniak: Yes.

Tracy Hayes: —by—

[01:03:21] Kati Spaniak: Agents.

[01:03:22] Tracy Hayes: Yes.

[01:03:23] Kati Spaniak: And that's what I wanna say to all the agents out there, is you need to, like, not think you know everything about what's on other side of the phone or the email, because are many agents who have missed out on a lot of money.

Layups—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —real layups, because they won't get back to me or they hung up on me.

[01:03:40] Tracy Hayes: Let's talk, so assume there's some agents listening.

You have following around the country, so the people are, are googling you.

This will, this, hopefully show comes up, which I'm sure will somewhere, or one of the shorts or whatever, and they wanna, they in Washington State or Michigan or whatever, they wanna get part of your network.

They're here, they're listening to the show.

How do they get into the circle?

[01:04:01] Kati Spaniak: Yeah, it's very easy. It's very easy.

So you go to protecttheseller.com and just click on agent.

And to get into the Protect Seller Circle is answering 10 basic questions, and, you know, are you gonna be honest? Are you gonna be transparent? Are you not buy the listing?

You know, just basic—

[01:04:20] Tracy Hayes: You should add number 11: are you gonna pay my referral?

You know—

[01:04:24] Kati Spaniak: Here's the thing is that you don't, if you the circle, you don't have to take referrals.

It's kind an interesting dynamic because, yes, we're filling database with that, but really, I wanna change the industry.

I've spent a lot of time and energy.

I was president of my association.

Like, I've spent a lot of time in this industry, and I want us to have a better perception by the public.

[01:04:47] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:04:47] Kati Spaniak: And so it's not about how they do the business, and anyone at any stage of their business can join.

Because we not refer you if you've only done five deals, but I can tell and I know you're probably follow along until ready, and now you're in our database with a Protect the Seller Circle.

We actually have that, is if you are a circle member.

So very exciting when looking right now to, "Okay, we got a lead in this zip code."

I look, and then I see that that agent has already indicated that they are a Protect the Seller Circle member.

And now, the couple other that are great with it is that you take what we give you.

We're giving you this questions to take, and the that you've answered, and you take 10 questions your listing appointment with anybody, not just with our people.

You take it to anybody, and you say, "I'm committed to protecting the seller. Committed to putting you first, and I've put this in writing."

So now it becomes a listing appointment advantage, competitive advantage.

How many agents are walking into meeting saying, "I'm honest, and I can prove to you. Here it is right here"?

On the other end, on the other end, what we're doing is having sellers understand what Protect the Seller Circle is.

So now they are taking the 10 questions that we give them to say, "Take this to your agent," and they're hopefully putting it in front of their s—agents to say, "Do you agree with these 10 questions? And if you do, please to Protect the Seller Circle and sign up."

[01:06:19] Tracy Hayes: That's cool.

[01:06:19] Kati Spaniak: So it's a circle together—with everybody outside of any corporate, outside of these, you know, Zillow trying to do all this.

There's no, you know, not the associations, not brokerages.

It's completely d—brokerage agnostic.

[01:06:34] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:06:35] Kati Spaniak: And it's us as agents taking a of our industry and taking accountability and saying, "You know what? We wanna be in any more lawsuits anymore. I know how hard I work."

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: "I know how hard I work for my clients. I know I'm truthful. I know I'm honest."

And changing the industry, I hope forever.

I really do.

[01:06:53] Tracy Hayes: Do you have courses and so forth? Are they primarily just for your sellers, or, or are some of them actually on for the agents who wanna be part of the circle?

[01:07:02] Kati Spaniak: So we're not quite there yet.

You know, our model is not making money off of agents.

A lot of people is. That's what they wanna do, is they're trying to make money off agents.

We're—we wanna change the industry.

So, you know, I offer s—a few things here and there.

I—

[01:07:17] Tracy Hayes: Guess if they watch what you're preaching to the sellers, they're going to be, if you wanna call the word, indoctrinated into your full mindset and i—ideology, which hopefully they've already have some attraction to.

[01:07:30] Kati Spaniak: Correct.

And so with that, I always say, I always say this, "New agents, inexperienced agents should be watching my channel."

Not because I want subscribers at all, but because the information that I'm to sellers is what these agents h—literally—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —have no—they don't know how to price, they don't know which updates are the most important, things like that.

So the agents need to be watching the videos.

Also, my book coming out, Sell Your Home Without Blowing Up Your Life, is really a hand-in-hand book agents.

Agents may not see that, but—

[01:08:03] Tracy Hayes: Gi—give me the title again.

[01:08:04] Kati Spaniak: Sell Your Home Without Blowing Up Your Life.

[01:08:06] Tracy Hayes: Sell Your Home Without Blowing Your Life.

And that, you said October.

[01:08:10] Kati Spaniak: October 6th. I'll—

[01:08:11] Tracy Hayes: They'll be able to get it on Amazon October 6th.

[01:08:12] Kati Spaniak: You can get it anywhere online, yeah.

[01:08:13] Tracy Hayes: Okay.

[01:08:14] Kati Spaniak: So that book really should be like a hand-in-hand guide for your clients, because as I now have proven, an educated seller makes for a no-brainer.

Like, you walk in, if you're a educated seller and you're the right—they're gonna choose you. There's nobody else they're gonna choose.

And so the book is educating sellers.

So agents should be buying book for their sellers.

[01:08:39] Tracy Hayes: Well, it goes if they're watching your videos, if the seller's already watching your videos—

[01:08:43] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:44] Tracy Hayes: —and may not actually even contact you, they may be just a seller, they're just watching, and that agent comes in and they are presenting or speaking the logical ways that you—

Kati Spaniak: Yes.

Tracy Hayes: —do on your trainings, this is how you handle this, inspections, whatever, all the...

And they're talking your talk, it immediately s—whoa, 'cause they have already got the trust with you.

[01:09:05] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[01:09:05] Tracy Hayes: And if I'm talking the same way and using maybe some of the same phrases or whatever, they're gonna automatically just, they click with the trust with me.

You're, that like kind is going to make that circle.

E—

[01:09:15] Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

And in the book, I also say if an agent gave you this book, that is an agent who you probably should talk to.

[01:09:24] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:09:25] Kati Spaniak: Because the book is more than just, like, staging and updates and things like that.

It's the psychology. It is the pricing psychology.

It's do you want price versus peace, you know?

And it's helping those sellers understand that.

But an agent who comes in and gives that book to that seller is not scared that that seller is gonna choose somebody else because they're understanding.

That agent is like, "I agree with some of the stuff in here. Some of the stuff I'm not so sure about, but you know what? I want you to look at this because I you to be educated, and we're gonna become partners."

And that's what I, I think the book really can be for agents who understand it.

And as I said, you know, the experienced agents are the ones who have embraced every single thing.

The ones who have sold of homes have embraced it all.

[01:10:12] Tracy Hayes: Sell Your Home Without Blowing Up Your Life.

That's, that's an—giving—so now you've picked up pace since the last time we talked.

We, it's been a—you know—

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: —it's been, what, it's been about a and a half, right?

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: It was, was spring last, spring of '25 that we spoke.

Obviously things seem to be picking up, snowballing effect.

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: What are some of the few, what are areas of country where you wish you had some more agents?

'Cause I imagine when you're trying to some of these places, it's might be hard to find an agent.

What are, are you seeing as the, you know, y—because you're, you are a, I call it plan, do, review. Don't know where, wherever I picked that up.

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: I, I forget who it was. Someone, someone good used plan, do, review.

You're always planning, you're doing, and then you're reviewing what just happened.

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: What are some of the things you've seen in the last year and a half, you're picking up momentum?

What are areas where, "Hey, I wish I had more agents," you know, that could, that, you know, would join the circle that are in this area?

Talk to that.

[01:11:02] Kati Spaniak: Yeah. So get—we a lot of a—a lot of requests for South Florida, Southwest Florida.

We really struggle. We really struggle.

And—we struggle because there's so many agents and so much movement, and they're moving very, very fast.

So that's an area that we definitely would like to have more partners in Orlando.

Actually, in all of Florida, we'd really love to have more in Florida.

The states are probably, like, New York is hard, 'cause believes that I have a referral fee.

And I had, like, a $2.5 million referral in Manhattan, and called a agents.

They're like, "We don't work that side of the street."

I was like, he—the one agent was like, "I'm sorry, I have to protect my brand."

And I was like, "Oh my gosh."

Like, it's just hard sometimes.

And I get that, too. I understand that.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: We get a lot of referrals in Washington State. Texas, we get a lot of referrals.

In Arizona, we get a lot of referrals.

In Colorado.

The hardest ones to fill, the hardest referrals to fill, are the rural areas, the rural lo—location.

So if you're in a rural area, you're thinking, "Katie's never gonna have a referral for me," that's not true.

And if you're in a rural location and you have good photos, you win.

Like, like can't tell you, there are many rural locations in the country where all of the agents have iPhone pictures.

And if you are an agent in that area of the country, any rural area, go and look at your competitors.

If you elevate yourself to getting professional done, you're gonna win more than you know.

Like, that is our hardest area, the areas.

[01:12:42] Tracy Hayes: Interesting.

So, I do find it amazing, 'cause I, obviously, when I'm trolling for guests, I am going on their LinkedIn and so forth, and the put Reid Tomato on there.

I'm putting very good, highly AI s—findable articles, not only on the website for show, but they also go on my LinkedIn.

And so I try to tag some of my agents that I've guests on, and they don't have a profile.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: Or if they do, it's their, as call it, their copy, their bio is not r—you know, robust.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: And what blows my mind is AI can make it easy.

I know you—you may not be able...

If you go in and just talk to AI and tell it about yourself, and if obviously if you're using it a lot, it'll be—ask it to tell what it knows about you—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —and then create a bio about it.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: Or y—you could, I lo—I love using Claude Extension right now.

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: I use Claude Ex—I had to go through my entire LinkedIn profile and analyze it and tell me where I could, you brush up here, or I wasn't doing this, I wasn't using this feature or that feature, and I, you know, get all those.

Those things are out there, and so no one should have you a bio on their website that's the original one they did five years ago.

[01:13:46] Kati Spaniak: Well, a lot of people don't even have a bio.

It's just their brokerage's name—

[01:13:50] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:13:50] Kati Spaniak: —with their phone and email address.

Like, that to me, I don't love that because if you're not investing in your business from the first, like, search of your name, like you're not spending any money.

In order to be a, a great, again, a great means whatever—

Tracy Hayes: Mm.

Kati Spaniak: —but you have to invest in your business.

You have to make professional marketing.

You have to put that brand out there.

So you're probably thinking, if you're not doing it, you're thinking, "Well, I don't wanna the money on that."

Well, you don't know how many people you've lost.

Like, we will go right by you.

[01:14:21] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Would you right now from a standpoint, and you, there's obviously, you know, some of the biggest, you know, Compass and so forth that's trying to be out there and compete with Zillow and so forth.

They're having AI searchability obviously is one of their hot topics.

How can we be better found?

And—really, it's back to some of the basics of having a, a, having your own website, not the website tagged onto your brokerage—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —if you be found through your website.

And then obviously, putting current blogs that are well-written, not AI slop, on there.

Having effective photos.

All those things are o—are out there, and because it's out there on the Inter—that when is doing AI search, AI's—AI is analyzing those things as well.

Kati Spaniak: Correct.

Tracy Hayes: And they don't even realize it.

[01:15:04] Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

[01:15:04] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:15:04] Kati Spaniak: And it's, it's stunning to me and, and my—when we're looking, and sometimes we'll send, send each other a screenshot and be like, "What—what, what was this agent thinking?"

Like—

[01:15:14] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[01:15:15] Kati Spaniak: You know, it's just, what are they thinking?

[01:15:16] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

They go around and, and match up your Facebook, your Instagram, your website, and make sure they're, they all are in sync.

They've got, you know, your Facebook—your Facebook has your link to your Instagram, which they're kinda linked already, but you're linked, but your website link should be on there.

You know, people—what do you do?

I go on agents' websites 'cause I'll see their names.

Like, "Oh, who's this? Let me go to their Facebook page," and it doesn't even say that they're a real estate agent—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —as their profession on there.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: So I'm like, your friends don't even know if you're still a real estate agent or not.

[01:15:45] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[01:15:45] Tracy Hayes: Exactly.

It's, it's some of those simple basic things, and I really do find it funny the amount of money some of the agents are spending on their Instagram reels, which some of them are really great.

[01:15:56] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

[01:15:56] Tracy Hayes: But they—they're gone in 24 hours, and they're really not...

Y—like, I mean, imagine you, I don't know if you even, do you even look at their Instagram?

[01:16:03] Kati Spaniak: We do.

[01:16:03] Tracy Hayes: You do look at their—

Kati Spaniak: We do. We—

[01:16:04] Kati Spaniak: Do, so—

[01:16:04] Tracy Hayes: See what kind of stuff?

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: What's on there that impresses you that—

[01:16:07] Kati Spaniak: Well, so this is—I talk about a lot in my videos, is there's a difference between marketing yourself and marketing the homes you're listing.

And so, and I teach the sellers this, so they're more educated people.

Like, they—they're becoming more educated because they're watching me.

So now they know, is that an agent who's only promoting themselves probably is not a super busy agent.

Agents who, we do look at this.

So agents, and it's not, it's not one size fits all.

It's—I've been in the industry for so long, I understand.

An agent who does not have a post up on their social media ongoing most likely doesn't have support.

So if a big agent and they're doing really well, and they don't have a recent picture of their, you know, listing in 52 weeks, which I've seen—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —I've seen 400 weeks.

Like, if you don't have a, then I know you're probably a very disorganized agent.

I to say that, like, as a general, but an agent who's super is doing the, right?

They have the listings, but they don't have a system and a process to put them up online, which we all know they don't really do anything, but it just shows me.

So, like, the Instagram stuff, we like to see the Instagram videos, and I do have to say there have been a lot of inappropriate videos that we've seen, and we will not refer you to our sellers if you have a video that's inappropriate.

And I have to say, we did miss one.

An agent—or a seller reached out to me and said—

[01:17:35] Tracy Hayes: Were they in South Florida?

[01:17:36] Kati Spaniak: No, they were not. They were California.

Tracy Hayes: Okay. Okay.

Kati Spaniak: Reached out to me and said, "I was very uncomfortable with your agent who came. I just felt like she just was not dressed appropriately."

And so of course I'm like, "Well, come on, give me a break."

What we did, we went deep on her Instagram profile, and I was like, "Oh my gosh."

Like, it was really not okay.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: For my, for my people, like, the people I refer, which typically 55 w—year-old women and older, you—it was just very...

And then we ended up one, and this was on—we didn't see these either.

It was, there were stories, and they were totally color, and the agent did them in the seller's house, in a very, like, 55-plus community, very off-color stories that, on this house, and she ended up firing her agent, and we apologized profusely for that.

[01:18:29] Tracy Hayes: Were they even about the house?

Or—

[01:18:31] Kati Spaniak: They—well, they were in joking about the house.

Tracy Hayes: Oh.

Kati Spaniak: So it was a caricature of this couple going around this house very inappropriately, trying to be funny in the house, showcasing the house.

[01:18:43] Tracy Hayes: Just trying to get clicks.

[01:18:44] Kati Spaniak: Trying to get clicks, and—

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: —that's okay for some people, but this, like, you have to read the room.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: Like, this seller was not gonna be okay with this in her house as she's trying to sell it.

Maybe a year later, you know, when nobody knows it's house, but they, everybody in her community knew it was on the market.

[01:19:02] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:19:03] Kati Spaniak: So, like, it's these things. I'm seeing these. I'm looking at these things.

[01:19:06] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. No, I—I—

[01:19:07] Kati Spaniak: Well, those I meant.

[01:19:08] Tracy Hayes: It just goes back—I meant, and, and I, if, i—agents that are, that are still listening, if you're spending more time on the videographer than are on making, that—I think you should have your own website, preferably your name, real estate—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —dot com—

[01:19:22] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[01:19:22] Tracy Hayes: —thing.

[01:19:23] Tracy Hayes: I think you would agree this right now, the AI search is like, how can we be on AI?

Well, you've got to have all these things filled out.

It's not like gotta change them every day.

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: But you gotta be, you putting authentic content on there.

They're not looking at picture. AI does not see Instagram.

It's not looking at Instagram.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: It bar, it—you can get to look at YouTube if you give it the link, but it's looking at the, it's looking at what's on, on your website.

And if you're producing that kind of material, you'll be cited as a source—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —on an AI s—and that's where you get found.

Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

Tracy Hayes: Is your, oh, you know, kspaniek.com was the source for that, you know, comment, World War Village or Palencia or whatever, right?

Kati Spaniak: Exactly. Exactly.

Tracy Hayes: You know, um, I, I think missing out on, on that part and spending much time on the Instagram stuff you're talking about because they probably a videographer to—

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: —w—round that house and film them, and how much did they spend on that?

[01:20:15] Kati Spaniak: Right, exactly.

[01:20:15] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, yeah.

[01:20:16] Kati Spaniak: You know, it's not that this stuff is bad. It's not it's bad, but you have to look at it, what are the consumers seeing?

And I talk with consumers every day.

[01:20:24] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:20:24] Kati Spaniak: You know, and they don't always like that stuff.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: You know, and it, you gotta think about how it comes across to people who are not you.

Now, that's fine if that's your market.

Like, that's fine if those are the only people you want as clients.

Totally fine with that.

But when I'm referring, I need to look for somebody who is going relate to a 55-year-old-plus woman.

[01:20:45] Tracy Hayes: Well, I think the common sense, we talked about that common sense, is you're looking at someone who's spending money on silly videos to get clicks, they're gonna attract silly clients.

[01:20:57] Kati Spaniak: Oh my gosh. That is totally true.

So that is totally true, and that's why I say, I'm very honest and just real on my videos on YouTube.

That's who I'm attracting, right?

You get other YouTubers who are not experienced, or they're whatever they are.

You know, they're attracting their people.

My are attracted to education.

I have a full avatar, and my avatar is hit.

Like, those are the people who are watching me.

They're, they wanna be educated. They want somebody who's honest. They want somebody who's truthful.

And I will tell you, that goes a lot longer, being honest and truthful, than the Instagram videos.

[01:21:30] Tracy Hayes: Well, you know, and when it c—when you wanna translate that to dollars.

[01:21:33] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[01:21:33] Tracy Hayes: You're adding education.

They're watching you.

If referred by Katie, you're basically Katie along, or y—you know, your credibility.

So they able to ask for the greater commission and be able to battle a negotiation—or not even be asked to negotiate, because they see the value—

Kati Spaniak: They see the value.

Tracy Hayes: —in paying you more.

Kati Spaniak: Yes.

[01:21:52] Kati Spaniak: Yes, absolutely.

Now, here's thing I will say that gets somebody on our do not refer list.

So if the agent goes in and they haven't done research on me, and not that they need to agree with me, but they literally just don't know who I am, and we've all done this.

Tracy Hayes: Mm.

Kati Spaniak: We don't always know who's coming in.

But go in, and then they tell the seller that, "If you hadn't been referred by Katie, I could charge you less."

Like—

Tracy Hayes: Oh, I hate that.

Kati Spaniak: Oh, and, and the reason is because you make sellers feel bad when you tell them that.

Like, the seller's like, "Well, gosh, I'd be able to get less money if I had found you on my own? I feel so stupid."

Like, and then it's trying to undercut my relationship with my sellers, and so people think this is like an online lead.

It's not.

These people know me.

Like, they really connect with me.

[01:22:41] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:22:41] Kati Spaniak: And so makes the agent look stupid when they in and they try and undercut me, or they say, "Well, you, if you just found me on your own it would be less commission."

[01:22:50] Tracy Hayes: Well, this is the—

Kati Spaniak: I know.

Tracy Hayes: —a—again, go back to common sense.

These our truly laydowns, because you've already educated them.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: If the agent goes in and says, "We should sell it for 600," you've already educated them on, hey, you maybe you ask a couple questions, but to confirm that, hey, w—600 is what we're gonna get, this is what we should list it.

You've already battled that.

I imagine nine out of 10 don't even, like—

Kati Spaniak: No.

Tracy Hayes: —push back on it.

And then they're not even looking at other agents in the area.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: They're the only agent because they know you—

Kati Spaniak: Exactly.

Tracy Hayes: —and your credibility that they're riding on.

It's like, why would you say something stupid—

Kati Spaniak: I don't know.

Tracy Hayes: —like that and create—now you're automatically...

Now, they might step back and say, "I don't even want you."

[01:23:27] Kati Spaniak: Right.

[01:23:27] Tracy Hayes: Let go find someone else.

[01:23:28] Kati Spaniak: Well, I mean, I do, because these sellers feel like they know me—

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: —so they email me, and they're, there's, they'll say to me, "I just to tell you, you know, this, this agent came and didn't even know who you are."

And I'm like, "Listen, fake it. Like, you don't have to follow me, but like, just fake it, you know?"

[01:23:45] Tracy Hayes: Right, right.

[01:23:45] Kati Spaniak: So it's just, there's some bad looks that agents do out there.

[01:23:48] Tracy Hayes: Do you do any, when you have a first-timer—

[01:23:50] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

[01:23:50] Tracy Hayes: —first-time agent you're, you're referring, do, have you, you know, obviously they should on your links and find out who you are, but maybe create a little short—

Kati Spaniak: We, we do.

Tracy Hayes: We do. Or when you send them the email, there's a little video, "Hey, I'm Katie, and this is how you got this."

Kati Spaniak: We do.

Tracy Hayes: "'Cause this is what I do."

[01:24:04] Kati Spaniak: We do, but then many agents think that it's an internet lead, and so they just think I've paid for this lead.

Don't—they don't get it.

And that's fine they don't get it.

I mean, as we continue grow—

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: —we've already hit, you know, 5, 6,000 people, agents.

How many really great agents are there in the—I don't know, but it's not, you know, we don't have to have everybody in our database.

What we need is the best agents in the market, for sure.

And way we are going to find the best agents is when they go and register Protect the Seller, but that is a d—like said, it's a dual s—dual side here.

Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

Kati Spaniak: There, it's win-win-win all the way around for everybody, including the consumer too.

[01:24:39] Tracy Hayes: Do you have the lead in New York? Was that ac—is it actually an active lead right now you haven't assigned somebody to?

[01:24:45] Kati Spaniak: Which one? The one that hung up on me?

[01:24:47] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. No, you said you had the $2.5 million in Manhattan or—

[01:24:49] Kati Spaniak: Something.

Oh, we do.

We still have the two-and-a-half-million apartment.

[01:24:52] Tracy Hayes: So, well, M—I forget, uh, it's Kevelyn. I—it's Kevelyn Guzman.

She's, well now, she actually is the operations person for Warburg, is the an—it's a 100-year-old brokerage.

[01:25:02] Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

[01:25:03] Tracy Hayes: They now have gone over to, to Christie's.

Kati Spaniak: Mm.

Tracy Hayes: Compass came in—

Kati Spaniak: Okay.

Tracy Hayes: —and they were running—

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: I think under RE/MAX, I think, or maybe Coldwell Banker, but now they just went over Christie, but I had her on the show.

[01:25:12] Kati Spaniak: Okay.

[01:25:12] Tracy Hayes: So you go, and I imagine she might be able to you—

[01:25:16] Kati Spaniak: We did find two.

[01:25:16] Tracy Hayes: You did—

[01:25:16] Kati Spaniak: Find. Yes.

Tracy Hayes: You, you find.

[01:25:17] Tracy Hayes: Yes. Okay. All right.

Kati Spaniak: Mm-hmm.

Tracy Hayes: So you're good there.

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: All right.

I'm just thinking of some others around the country, the handful that I've had not in Florida that we've had on the show, but I've had some in South, too, that I've had on.

[01:25:26] Kati Spaniak: And we are finding some.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: We're, we're weeding through it.

We are—

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: —we are finding them.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

Kati Spaniak: And listen, once we get them in that area, we go back, we get another lead there, we're like, "This is so easy."

The hardest part of our job is finding the agents.

[01:25:38] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm. I can imagine.

[01:25:39] Kati Spaniak: It's really hard.

[01:25:40] Tracy Hayes: Well, they—well, like I said, as more goes on, more you're going back to numerous times, hopefully.

Kati Spaniak: Right.

Tracy Hayes: And the word will slowly get out, 'cause you come on great podcasts like this and get out what you're doing.

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: 'Cause I think it's awesome.

[01:25:53] Kati Spaniak: Absolutely.

[01:25:54] Tracy Hayes: All right. I appreciate you coming on.

[01:25:55] Kati Spaniak: Yeah. Thank you.

[01:25:55] Tracy Hayes: Thank you so much.

I think, I think we might have to, we might have to have a, um...

You, you need to track these stories that are coming and forth of—

Kati Spaniak: Oh, trust—

Tracy Hayes: —some of these things these say.

'Cause that, that is a in itself, actually.

[01:26:05] Kati Spaniak: It is.

[01:26:05] Tracy Hayes: It is. It is.

It's kind of, like—

Kati Spaniak: The, the agents.

Tracy Hayes: Yeah, it's kind of, someone—

Well, the lady who's working with me on my book, we, which I was, she goes, "Yeah, if we could do a book on crime in real estate."

[01:26:13] Kati Spaniak: Oh, gosh.

[01:26:14] Tracy Hayes: But yeah, that's—

Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

Tracy Hayes: —a hot seller.

[01:26:15] Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

[01:26:15] Tracy Hayes: Right?

But just the crazy s—people stories, people read, they go, "You gotta be kidding me."

[01:26:20] Kati Spaniak: Yeah.

[01:26:20] Tracy Hayes: Right. Someone said that?

[01:26:22] Kati Spaniak: Well, we get a lot of those text messages.

And honestly—

Tracy Hayes: They—

Kati Spaniak: —we have to give them a DNR, you know.

They don't know what they missed out on.

[01:26:29] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:26:29] Kati Spaniak: They don't know.

Because gonna change the, change the industry.

[01:26:33] Tracy Hayes: Looking forward to it.

[01:26:33] Kati Spaniak: Yeah. You. Thanks for having me.

[01:26:35] Tracy Hayes: Yes, ma'am.