The Real Monthly Payment, Rate Lock Paralysis, and Why Long-Term Agents Win | Windy Keene

REE #320 Transcript

[00:00:00] Windy Keene: I think everybody thinks that this is easy. And I think if you have somebody that gets in on like a fast-paced market and they're like, oh yeah, this is easy. And then it kind of shifts a little bit. They're like, oh wait, this is hard. And it, because it is hard.

And I would say even when you're really busy, it's hard because you're dealing with people and like their most important financial decision.

[00:00:53] Tracy Hayes: Hey, welcome back to the Real Estate Excellence Podcast. Today's guest has been serving northeast Florida for over 20 years through every market cycle, every interest rate swing, and every shift in the industry has thrown at agents and clients alike.

She's built her business on data, relationships, and a level of honesty that keeps clients coming back, not just once, but through multiple moves and major life transactions.

Based in St. John's County. She's the agent families trust when the stakes are high and the market is complicated. Please welcome Wendy Keen to the show.

Welcome. Thank you for having me. Yeah, no, I appreciate you coming on and obviously, you know, I, I do a lot of due diligence and, uh, I don't know how you've been flying under my radar, but something popped up. I always trolling social media and something must have been on there. I'm like, who's this Wendy Keen? Let me go look up and see what she is she’s doing. Is she doing some business? And then obviously I did not realize you've been in the business 20 years, so you got a lot to share with us today.

[00:01:49] Windy Keene: Oh, I hope so.

[00:01:50] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Kick us off a little bit. Went to the university. You said Southern, was it Southern Mississippi?

[00:01:54] Windy Keene: It is, yeah.

[00:01:55] Tracy Hayes: Southern Mississippi. Went to the University of Southern Mississippi. What did young Wendy envision herself doing? I imagine wasn’t real estate.

[00:02:00] Windy Keene: No, I, I have a degree in accounting.

But I really, I don’t think I knew what I wanted to be when I grew up, and I think I still ask myself that question even now, like all the time. I think that’s healthy.

But yeah, I got an accounting degree and I graduated and really quickly got married after graduation, and we moved to Jacksonville and I went to work for a local accounting firm.

[00:02:23] Tracy Hayes: Did Jacksonville, ’cause of work, take you here or was he from here?

[00:02:25] Windy Keene: My husband’s job.

Okay. He was, he’s also from Mississippi, but he graduated and went to work for a company here in town. And so then I graduated and we got married and moved here and went to work for an accounting firm, and it was just a terrible job for me. It was just, I didn’t like the nine to five of being in an office all day. I needed more freedom.

And so I kind of started exploring and ended up doing the books for an office for a little while while I got my real estate license. And that was kind of what kicked it off.

[00:02:55] Tracy Hayes: 2005. So you were—well, we have a lot of great real estate agents in the area that are sub 25 years old that are doing great. Yeah. So you got in very young, but you’re a generation now ahead of them, which was—you must have been very rare. I mean, you must have been probably the youngest person in the office.

[00:03:12] Windy Keene: I was. I felt like I was always the youngest person that did anything, and I didn’t want anybody to know how old I was. Like, people would ask and I would say I’m old enough. Like, I mean, it was because that just made people think I was inexperienced in it. So you had to be able to sort of juggle both, right?

[00:03:28] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:03:29] Windy Keene: Yeah.

[00:03:29] Tracy Hayes: Well, I mean, since we’re on this, I mean, tell us what it was like at that age. You know, you’ve been in the business now 20 years, so we’re going back to the early two thousands. Things are ramping up here.

[00:03:39] Windy Keene: The market was wild when I started.

[00:03:41] Tracy Hayes: Right. Did you get in on kind of the real upswing tidal wave and then hit the backside?

Yes. Yeah. Yes, I did.

Tell us about being a young agent, first of all, and how you—to speak to some of the young agents that are out there, or someone who may be thinking about getting in the business—what your challenges or mindset and how did you overcome some of those obstacles of being a young person?

[00:04:02] Windy Keene: Well, I think when I started and everything was so amazing and great, I didn’t know that it was amazing and great. I think I just thought that’s what this was, right? I was like, oh, good. This is fun, right? Like people just walk in your office and they’re like, hey, list my house. And you’re like, okay. And then we would sell it. And so it was just very, very fast paced. Not exactly the same as what we saw in the early, you know, 2021, 2022, but it was similar to that, right?

And in a lot of ways. And so it was, you know, kind of after that shifted, it was harder, but it was really neat because I feel like all of the different stages and ups and downs that our market takes you, you grow, you get to serve different people in different ways, and it really helps you grow. And there’s always a place to do work. It doesn’t really matter what the market is. Everybody always needs to buy and sell homes. And so sometimes it’s at a different pace. It’s not always at the same pace, but we’re always still working.

[00:05:25] Tracy Hayes: Now we're starting to come down the backside and I, I, of course, I started, I started in the business in 2005 in mortgages. Okay. In 2007. Yeah, there was a lot of thought. Hours went by without the phone ringing, you know?

[00:05:38] Windy Keene: Yeah.

[00:05:38] Tracy Hayes: That type of thing. And, what was it like, you know, you got in the business, things are fast. Like, oh man, this is great. I'm listing houses, I'm moving, you got some transactions under your belt and you got bought into the, the culture, if we wanna call it that, if

[00:05:51] Windy Keene: I would say I learned how to work. I think that was what was so important about that time. And so really nice about that time was I got to work right? And so I did, I learned how to do it. And I think that that's what's hard about coming in for, as a new agent to a slower season, is like, there's a lot of space in between the work. So you're not doing that, you know all the transactions that teach you how to do the things, but you're still doing them and you can still walk alongside more seasoned agents to kind of come along.

So I wouldn't be. Like, I wouldn't count yourself out because of that, right? Mm-hmm. I think that like you, again, this is a job that stays, right, is, I mean, if you're willing to put the work in and shift with the market and, you know, we went from that, you know, really easy. Everybody's walking in, just sell my house. Okay, great. Let's put a sign in the yard to like learning what a short sale was.

[00:06:39] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:06:39] Windy Keene: And, you know, spending upwards of six months working on one deal just to see it through, you know, I mean, that was a different, you know, that's a different kind of staying power, right? Like, but that's what the market was at that time.

And so that's what we did. You know, like, and there were lots of really great attorneys in town that kind of came alongside and like really came up during that time to help us learn how to negotiate those and work with banks. And so there, you know, different,

[00:07:03] Tracy Hayes: We're talking preshow about choosing the right brokerage and at obviously these things are going on and I think talking to many agents who have been through this period of the period that we're talking about and 2006, 7, 8, 9, all the way up to 12 really before the housing market gets back to normal.

Was your brokerage very proactive in trying to find, you know, obviously yeah, learning what a short sale is, learning how to handle these, the foreclosures obviously, trying to get with the banks to gain some of that foreclosure business, how to actually make offers on foreclosed homes. All these things had to be learned at a very quick pace.

[00:07:39] Windy Keene: Yeah, they did. And I think that I do, I think that, at the time I was with Magnolia Properties, I was there for a really long time before I came over to Ring Roundtable and yeah. Eileen did a good job of trying to make sure we knew and understood these different markets that we could be in and we could be a part of.

[00:07:56] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:07:56] Windy Keene: And encouraging us,

[00:07:57] Tracy Hayes: Because I think, well, to imagine not everybody in your office hung out. Some rolled outta the business completely.

[00:08:04] Windy Keene: I would say a lot of people do. I mean, this is, you know, I've say there's a, I don't know what the numbers are. You probably do like for turnover and real estate. I don't, I mean, but I'm, it's pretty high. Yeah. I mean

[00:08:13] Tracy Hayes: It's,

[00:08:13] Windy Keene: I mean, and it's because it's hard. It's, I think everybody thinks that this is easy. And I think if you have somebody that gets in on like a fast-paced market and they're like, oh yeah, this is easy. And then it kind of shifts a little bit. They're like, oh wait, this is hard. And it, because it is hard.

And I would say even when you're really busy, it's hard because you're dealing with people and like their most important financial decision.

[00:08:34] Tracy Hayes: Is it really the transaction itself being hard or and not that you're the only person, but I, but but you're on this, so I'm gonna drill on on this. Okay. Part here, the actual transaction. 'cause if you could go from one transaction to another, like one phone calls onto the next, hey, I got an offer here. Versus what you and I know goes on, there's a lot of hours of,

[00:08:59] Windy Keene: It's a motion

[00:09:00] Tracy Hayes: Of you, your marketing is really 80% of your business. If just to throw a number out there, it's the majority of your time has to be prospecting, marketing in some way, shape, or form. And that's really where the hard work comes in.

[00:09:15] Windy Keene: And I would say that is hard, right? Like, I mean, and you have to find what works best for you and what's important for you. Mm-hmm. And like what market you want to market to. And I would say for me it's past clients. That's, if you look at my business, like over the whole thing, it's, yes, I have gotten plenty of leads from Google reviews and different ways that, you know, my name is out there and, and marketing myself online, but the majority of my business is gonna come from.

You know, either a repeat past client or just a referral from those clients. And so really just for me, it's staying in relationship with all those people that I currently work with and continuing to check in with them. And those being real relationships, not just like, oh yeah, we closed the deal, I'm done with you, kind of thing.

[00:10:01] Tracy Hayes: So a newer agent today that might be listening to the show right now, they're like, oh, hey, Wendy, you know, you've been doing this 20 years. It's easy for you. Yeah. Tell them what if you, and this is a, this is one of the book I'm writing. This is one of the questions. If you were to look back at Wendy 21 years ago and describe to her what you had to do to get to where you're at, what would you say to that, Wendy, 21 years ago?

[00:10:27] Windy Keene: I would say work with integrity,

[00:10:30] Tracy Hayes: Work with,

[00:10:30] Windy Keene: I would, I would just say like, it's always about putting the work in, right? It's like you don't ever, it's, you have to just take that next step. You have to do that extra layer of work and take care of the people that are in your circle, right? And that could be the people that you're serving for work, your buyers or your sellers, or it could be other people.

But I mean, even just, this is a good example. Like the other, you know, a couple of weeks ago we were working on negotiations and we got an offer and the sellers were like, oh, I don't even know if we should respond to this, right? And I was like, we should always, like, let's take everything seriously.

Let's just take a deep breath. And so it's really like helping them think through like the best response. It's not saying, I'm not ever saying like, oh, you should take less than you think you should, but let's respond with respect and in a good way and see where this takes us. You know? And that deal ended up getting together.

Mm-hmm. You know, and then you have that same conversation again when they get a repair request that seems crazy. It's like, let's take a deep breath and let's just get numbers and find out what all these things cost. And then let's, then we can respond with integrity. We can flip that back and it not just be an emotional response.

Mm-hmm. Which is not gonna serve us. And they're, you know, when you speak to people in a rational way and help them think through things rationally with such a big emotional financial decision, they appreciate that. And so,

[00:11:53] Tracy Hayes: Just getting to know you here in the last 30 minutes that is kind of your, that's your personality. That's you. That I feel the person, I don't, I'm just getting, you know, watched your video, you know, or just, your presence is, is that, that's you, but not everybody has that, or is, has that personality. I, that person 20 years ago, you may not have described it the same way. No, but I would bet you, you, you just came across honesty, sincerity, integrity, people before property yes. Is Howard says like ab

[00:12:26] Windy Keene: Says like you ab and that's yes. Yes. Yes,

[00:12:29] Tracy Hayes: To someone, because one of the things I hear from every agent, whether it's on camera or off camera, the challenges they have oftentimes with inexperienced agents or maybe agents who've been in it 20 years, but they're not doing any, a lot of business and almost they feel bothered by doing some business, type of thing where they get confrontational, oh yeah, in that negotiation and they start putting oftentimes their ego, their emotions in front of the person they're actually representing

[00:12:54] Windy Keene: No room

[00:12:55] Tracy Hayes: For that type of thing. Yeah. What if you were in a front of room and that was the topic you were talking about, what would you say to those agents out there, on how you've obviously seen success with it to tone it down? How would you say it?

[00:13:07] Windy Keene: I would say take a deep breath and, if you feel really emotional or mad or even confrontational, because we all do, we get defensive about things that happen and things that are said

[00:13:19] Tracy Hayes: We're competitive.

[00:13:20] Windy Keene: Right. I would say, I would say like everything can almost always weigh a day. Everything like, I mean, and, and that's not always true, but most things can.

And so that's sort of my like methodology if I feel really emotional about something. I shelf it and I sleep on it, and then I'll look at it fresh in the morning. And that's often my advice to my sellers too. Hey, I'm sending this to you. I'm available to talk about it tonight, but I think it might be good if you just think about it and we can chat in the morning.

[00:13:49] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:13:50] Windy Keene: And so I feel like that, that like a good night's sleep kind of diffuses a lot of things. And usually when I look at it the next morning, it doesn't make me mad at all. I'm able to actually process it differently and like respond better. And so that would be my advice.

[00:14:04] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Don't, don't be a, we we used to call it at, um, at Quicken Loans is where I first started. Now Rocket obviously, but, keyboard badass. Don't be a keyboard, don't be a text message person. Just

[00:14:14] Windy Keene: Take a minute.

[00:14:15] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Take, take a minute or set the phone down. Go walk around the house for a minute. You know, go get something to drink. You know, maybe go have lunch. Like you said, there's not many things that need a response. Like right now, I need it back in two minutes.

[00:14:28] Windy Keene: And we feel like that our job feels like that all the time. Yeah. It's very, there's a lot of pressure and I don't know, like I probably do that myself. That's probably a personality thing, right? We do that to ourselves. We feel like all these people need us and we need to be able to give them what they want right now.

[00:14:41] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:42] Windy Keene: And like, that's okay if that's the best response. Right. But if it's not going to be, then take a minute.

[00:14:49] Tracy Hayes: Well, it all goes back to that. I'm going use the analogies. It goes back to that, that poker have a poker face. And sometimes it takes, you know, don't

[00:14:55] Windy Keene: Have a poker face.

[00:14:56] Tracy Hayes: You know, you may, you may have the right cards and, you know, most people are like, anxious just to throw 'em down, look what I got. But sometimes you have to just, you know, step back and look and act like you're a little nervous about it. But knowing that with your experience, you're gonna solve the problem. You're gonna, you're gonna, this is gonna come out. Awesome.

[00:15:12] Windy Keene: Well, and I

[00:15:13] Tracy Hayes: Think,

[00:15:13] Windy Keene: Like with other agents, like that's a lot of what we're talking about is that we're gonna solve it together, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, like, you know, even though I'm a single agent and I, I work for my client, like, we still have to work together, right? And so like, and we do and, and we like, that's kind of the beauty of our job is that we can work together and like we are better together, like when we're both being rational and trying to like, think through a problem and not trying to like one up each other.

Mm-hmm. You know, destroy the other person

[00:15:42] Tracy Hayes: There. Yeah. There is this, you know, I noticed it from a lending side. 'cause obviously I got two agents I'm working with buyer, seller agents and so forth and. I owe the be both sides communication. Now there's certain things I'm gonna say to my buyer's agent differently than I'm gonna tell to the, the seller's agent, because obviously right, we have a mutual client over here, but they still need to be updated. They still need to know what the timelines and because they're stressing out, is this gonna work? I've got a seller that just took their house off the, and it's having that collaborative approach. 'cause I think people forget these people that were, that are kind of talking about these agents that get kind of, uh, edgy and like, oh, don't tell, you know, don't say is the, the realization, the bottom line, you have a, you have a client that wants to buy or sell a home, and they have a client that wants to buy or sell a home. Right. And how do we work this out in the next 30 days,

[00:16:29] Windy Keene: Right?

[00:16:30] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Right. Yeah. The brokerage you're at at Magnolia, sold or you know mm-hmm. No longer you decided to get out. And you obviously you had to find a new brokerage. Tell us some of the things that went through after rough, basically about 15 years in the business.

[00:16:43] Windy Keene: Yeah.

[00:16:44] Tracy Hayes: So you knew what you were doing, what were you looking for? Did you set a kind of criteria and then obviously what was it that roundtable that, that.

[00:16:53] Windy Keene: Well, I mean like, I guess the first kind of like thing that has nothing to do with the Roundtable, but it does, was that they were close in proximity. So it was like that

[00:17:03] Tracy Hayes: This is nice. Nice office.

[00:17:05] Windy Keene: Yeah, that was, that was a huge perk. 'cause that had not been true kind of historically for me as far as, because I lived in Fruit Cove this whole time that I've been a realtor and Magnolia was, you know, off of Bay Meadows, which is fine, but, it wasn't in my backyard, right. And so there's that, but there's lots of real estate offices right there, you know, that are super close.

And I did look and talk to several of them and, you know, with Howard had reached out, I think at some point, and I was like, I'm not ready, like to have this conversation. And I don't really remember what he said or emailed me when he originally reached out, but it was impactful and I remembered, right?

And so, when this all came about, I reached out and I was like, hey, I'm ready to talk. I wanna see what you guys are about right? And honestly, I was just blown away because I do know what I'm doing and I know what it looks like to work in a real estate office. And, so I would say largely what I've seen, even if the company doesn't try to necessarily breed it is a lot of real estate offices are very competitive and a lot of realtors are, they thrive in that.

That's sort of, they wanna be the top and they do good in that like competition, that competitive market. And that's great. Like I think that we're all built a little bit different and we all need different things to kind of drive us to be our best, right? And, so, but what's different at Roundtable is that it's very collaborative.

And that's not just something that they say, like, it, it really is like we really all work together. We really all share ideas. Nobody like we, I have no idea who the top realtor is in my office ever, because they don't post any of those numbers. And it's not because they don't, it's more about being at the round table and us really being able to talk.

Howard really will take your call anytime. And I would say that, I love Eileen, like she was a, a friend. She's a friend, right? Mm-hmm. And so, but I, you know, like, I think because I mean, and Howard is too, but like, I would say that like, I didn't send her a lot of hard broker questions. I don't know, just probably because comfort or I don't know, but, with Howard, he like is so like honed into that.

[00:19:11] Tracy Hayes: He loves that.

[00:19:12] Windy Keene: Yes. He's like, call me, call me, call me, ask me. You know? And so, and so I do, you know, I mean, not every week, I mean not every month, but if I like, I'm like, you know, I'm like, hey, I need to run something by you and I can just talk through things with him. Yeah. And it just, he helps give me perspective. He helps give me, you know, like words sometimes where I'm like, am I seeing this wrong? You know, it's not, you know, they're not big legal things, but they're things that I feel like I could use, like some wisdom and just sound advice. And he is just very supportive in that way.

Yeah. And Keith is too like, and it, like, he's good at different things, like, you know, but I call him too, you know, and ask him questions. Right. Like, and we have Erin who does all of our marketing and she's amazing because I am not amazing on camera or like, or any of those things. And she makes it look like we are, and makes us look really great and comes up with all kinds of really cool marketing things for us.

Like I send out, like I told you, I market mostly to like my client base, right? So every quarter I send something fun to all of my past clients, like, and they are fun. Everybody loves them. It's fun to get them. It's different things. But Erin is kind of like the genius, the brains behind all of that, the creativity behind that. We sit down once a year, we come up with the whole year's worth of stuff.

[00:20:29] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:30] Windy Keene: And she makes it super fun. And so I'm really thankful for that. And it's the best brokerage in town.

[00:20:35] Tracy Hayes: Yeah,

[00:20:35] Windy Keene: For sure.

[00:20:35] Tracy Hayes: Obviously I've had both of 'em on, you know, Erin is definitely a huge asset there. I like what she was doing. I haven't seen 'em lately for some reason, but I was, they're posting a lot of Howard doing a lot of on call coaching, but it might've been either someone in the office right there going back and forth

[00:20:51] Windy Keene: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:52] Tracy Hayes: Working through, or he's got someone on speaker phone.

[00:20:54] Windy Keene: He does that all the time. And if you ever walk in our office, you'll usually hear him somewhere in the background talking to somebody on speaker or pacing around the office. Like

[00:21:02] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:21:03] Windy Keene: You know, um, I mean, like, for sure. Yes.

[00:21:05] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Talking real estate. 'cause I think a lot of the, a lot of the agents that get lost in the shuffle, if you want to go, they're not around enough people talking about the business. You know, obviously you walk in the round table, there's real estate conversations going on, all that.

[00:21:20] Windy Keene: Yeah.

[00:21:21] Tracy Hayes: And some, you know, if you're new to the business, and I don't care if you've been, you're 45 and you had another career, you're still new to real estate. You may have bought your own house a couple times, but you don't know the 99% of the other stuff that's goes on in the background as a real estate agent. Yes. Yeah. And, and what's needed.

[00:21:39] Windy Keene: And I, yes, they for sure. I mean, he is a great educator and just cheerleader, like encourager, he is a very, I mean, like, which is important 'cause I feel like our job's hard. Mm-hmm. Like people are, are really terrible sometimes, you know? Yeah. And can really like, tear you apart. And so, it's good to kind of come in and be like, you know, like, this really bad thing happened, or I'm having a really bad day, and he just will like, you know, sit down and he, you know, it's like, I mean, he can really kind of help you see the other side of

[00:22:09] Tracy Hayes: Things. Yeah. He, he's, he's, well one of the key things, and we'll talk about it, a couple things that you think people should think about when they make a move or choose a brokerage for the first time. But there's something that Howard is, I've mentioned it many times in 320 episodes, how, he's a perfect example of a broker who leads, is always trying to add value every day he comes in, he's trying to add value and stay in front of the agents so he's able to, you know, help you, you know, be educated on something you may not have saw. But he's reading the articles, I would say up to date on all this going, say

[00:22:41] Windy Keene: Like, to that point, just all the changes that we just had in our industry, with, you know, forms and nars and fire broker agreements and, you know, the way we've changed our everything, like our whole world. Just sort of like, but like. Keith and Howard. I mean, they, I feel like so many brokerages just were like, yeah, like figure it out.

Mm-hmm. And you could tell because none of, like, none of the agents,

[00:23:04] Tracy Hayes: They themselves were not putting the leaders in that brokerage. Were not putting the time to learn it. No.

[00:23:08] Windy Keene: And their,

[00:23:08] Tracy Hayes: To make sure their agents had it,

[00:23:10] Windy Keene: And their agents had no idea what was going on. And like we did, because like we, I mean like, they put on so many trainings for us. They invited in lawyers and experts and we were required to be there.

Mm-hmm. Like they were, there were several that it was, you know, like everything we're not required to go to obviously. Mm-hmm. We're all busy people. Mm-hmm. Like, we can't do everything and we don't need to do everything. Right. You know, there we, this might not, this, you know, might not benefit us, so we don't have to be there. But for those, there were several that were required, which I was really grateful for. I mean, like, if you are doing this job, you need to know how to do this job.

[00:23:42] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:23:42] Windy Keene: And your brokerage had some, has responsibility.

[00:23:45] Tracy Hayes: Cause still, even today, how many times you see an offer come over and it's not actually structured properly.

[00:23:50] Windy Keene: Oh.

[00:23:51] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, it still goes on, sadly. Yeah, for

[00:23:53] Windy Keene: Sure.

[00:23:54] Tracy Hayes: Because one of the things that, you know, I'm deep in the artificial intelligence that now is coming out and I had a gentleman on, a couple weeks ago from Listed Kit is the name of the company, but where they're actually taking the contract, you scan it in, it's actually checking for compliance and all those types of things.

And it's only, it's, that's only gonna get, I, I, I would imagine probably within a year if a brokerage is not using some sort of AI to find those, but some of these agents are sending over offers to you and the compensation's not properly presented and

[00:24:24] Windy Keene: Well, and I would say that's still very convoluted. Mm-hmm. Like there, everybody does it different, like, you know, and I'm like, hey, that's not supposed to go there, but we are gonna pay you. Let's just make sure we have it in the right place.

Mm-hmm. Like it, you know, like,

[00:24:35] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:24:36] Windy Keene: But we do that. Yeah.

[00:24:37] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, it's going, going on, but it's still time.

[00:24:39] Windy Keene: Yeah.

[00:24:39] Tracy Hayes: You know, you time and then you gotta go back and everyone resign. Whatever, whatever it may be. Alright, let's dig into, Wendy Keen and her business. Okay. And that's what we've got here. So, you've lived in Fruit Cove. For those who don't know, Fruit Cove is, Northwest St. Northwest St. John's County. It's right on, it's on the St. John's River. Just in the St. John's County, just south of Duval. So it's, it's been obviously with, you know, that area has been, basically an overflow from Marin, Mandarin, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, Mandarin is one of the popular areas of Jacksonville, but now you got on the other side of the creek and now you're into Fruit Cove area.

It's been very popular for, you know, as far as you've been in the business. Yeah. You know, 20, 20 years is really probably when it really started to pick up there. So you've lived in Fruit Cove for over 20 years. What's your honest read on where the market is right now in Fruit Cove?

[00:25:27] Windy Keene: I think that it's in a great place. Do you just mean like, like movability? Do you mean ing? Yeah. Like what is what?

[00:25:34] Tracy Hayes: Well, if someone's trying to buy or sell a home right now, I mean, you wanna take one side or the other, take the seller side or, so you know, what is the expectations versus obviously we know that area for sure, being in St. John's County, desirability, mature neighborhoods, great amenities. You know, in, in 20, as soon as you put the sign in, you probably had offers before you finished putting the sign in the dirt. Now things have probably changed a little bit. What's going on?

[00:25:59] Windy Keene: Okay. Yeah. So I would say, you have, you know, buyers are still wanting to sort of like push that mark, right? And say like, oh, well I think it's worth this because maybe it looked like it was on the internet like a few years ago, or whatever. And so you still have that. And I think that the most important thing for them is to help them see like where the market is and that, and I would say in different kind of different markets and in different times, like it is appropriate to maybe overpriced to allow room for negotiation.

And that, that's been normal in years past, you know, and for this market that we're in today, that's not going to be what's most beneficial for you. Like what's going to be most beneficial for a seller is to price right. And that things are still moving quickly and even getting multiple offers if they are, and things that are not priced right or they're just not marketed appropriately, there's gonna be some combination there versus like, if that's staging, if that's photos, if that's, you know, like that has to be in place as well.

But, really pricing is kind of the key thing and it's, you know, it's taking a look at your past sales, like your real comps, but it's also sitting down with them and saying, okay, this is what our comps are telling us, but also this is our competition

[00:27:14] Tracy Hayes: For sale right now,

[00:27:14] Windy Keene: What’s for sale right now. And really taking that into account and saying like, okay, like this is telling you that you, you can list for this price you would appraise, but is this still going to position you in the best place possible? And, you know, giving them some space to make that decision, right? But also being honest with them about, hey, like if we haven't seen any real, really good activity, really good movement, really good interest in two to three weeks on week four, like that, you know, we need to be looking at price and figure out what's going on.

[00:27:45] Tracy Hayes: How important is it, cause I imagine one of the first questions you ask as someone who's looking to sell their home is how soon they want to sell.

[00:27:53] Windy Keene: Yeah. And I would say motivation is a big thing, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, at. I've sat down, I've had, I, I can think of two off the top of my head that I've had in the last couple of months listing appointments where I went in and I was just, I knew that it was not in the seller's best interest to sell. It was like, what is your motivation here? Like, and let's talk about where you're going next and how does that benefit you?

Um, and, and really we walked away saying right now is not the right time. Like, it's not, and not because the market's terrible, it's just because they didn't really like what they, their next step wasn't helping them be in a better place than they're currently, they were currently in for whatever the reason, right? I mean, there's always people that need to sell and are going to sell and are, you know, but, so that's a big part of it is motivation and really being able to look at that with them.

I mean, and sometimes it's, you know, like you're downsizing and, you know, being brave enough to get their house on the market so that we can, you know, find something in time and, and like, so it's really taking those sellers out and spending some time with them looking, showing like, hey, like you have three really great available choices right now so you can feel confident that we can list your house. Maybe these three won't be there, but they'll be some, they'll be the right thing if we have three choices.

And so kind of just encouraging them that like, this is what you wanna do, this is what's good for you. Yes, it's a little bit of a leap of faith, but not really, like, you're gonna be, it's gonna be okay.

[00:29:19] Tracy Hayes: Every move has a leap of faith.

[00:29:20] Windy Keene: Right. And so, and just kind of encouraging them in that. Yeah. And, and just like being supportive of what their dream is. Like, what their next step is. And I think that that's really what I love about my job is that I do, I get to listen and everybody's story's different and I get to help them realize whatever that dream is. Mm-hmm. Like it's, it's really like working to help them realize that.

[00:33:52] Tracy Hayes: Sell me. ’cause like you said, the whole area there. I mean, I, I live in the zone. I mean, I’m just on, in St. John’s Golf and so I’m more closer to 95. You’re closer to the river, but we’re in the same mixture of mature neighborhoods as well as obviously Silver Leaf and Rivertown new construction, sell some. How would you, obviously new construction has a lot of benefits. It’s very easy to sell new construction. Oh, you buy down on the rate and all that, but get, take that off the shelf. But to sell somebody an existing home, why should someone, after you’ve, you’ve talked to ’em like, you know what, you really need to be looking at these homes here in Julington Creek that might be 15 years old. Sell someone. What would be some of the benefits that you would bring up?

[00:34:35] Windy Keene: Well, I mean, I would just, I mean, it would all depend on the buyer, right? Mm-hmm. And what they’re specifically looking at. But for, I mean, I would just encourage them in the fact that these established neighborhoods are really great. Like, for instance, St. John’s Golf and Country Club, like, I feel like that’s aged very well. Right? That’s not something, it’s beautiful.

[00:34:54] Tracy Hayes: They had a great CDD director for a good 11 years at that time, just saying.

[00:34:59] Windy Keene: But like, I mean, you drive through there and it’s like so dreamy. Like you’re like driving through trees and like just the design of the neighborhood. Like was it St. Joe, like they did, is, did I say that right? They did a really nice job of like just neighborhood design and it’s like, it’s aged very well.

[00:35:16] Tracy Hayes: King and Bear is another one. I, I, I love King and Bear.

[00:35:19] Windy Keene: Yes. I mean, so those are things that you are going to get with an established neighborhood. Mm-hmm. That maybe these new neighborhoods will age well as well, but it’s gonna take you a while to see that and, and feel that. Right. Good. And, and I do, I, I feel like, I mean, not always, but in a lot of the more established neighborhoods, again, you’re gonna have more established trees, depending on the age group and like what you’re looking to do, like, that’s going to hone in more and it’s just not something to skip.

I mean, like a lot of these homes that are in these neighborhoods, they’ve had the roof replaced, they’ve had all the major systems replaced. And so, I mean, really they’re in, like all of those things are maybe what might be concerning about somebody that’s really into a new construction home. Right. Right. And so if those boxes are already checked, then there’s no reason not to look at it, unless they’re just adamantly against

[00:36:09] Tracy Hayes: Our

[00:36:09] Windy Keene: Reason.

[00:36:09] Tracy Hayes: Well, if you’re talking to someone, I kind of know the answer to this, but I want you to put it out there. ’cause though, when you, when you, because I, I know. I feel how you’re gonna answer, maybe you’ll answer differently than what I think in this area of St. John’s County. That we’re talking about these great planned urban developments, the schools are all close by, all that kind of stuff. For someone to get someone looking to sell their home right now that might be 10, 15, 20 years old. What is the difference are you seeing between the homes that are, are literally getting offers? The first weekend, the first week they already got an offer, maybe two, three, maybe more, versus homes that have gone six, eight weeks without really getting much traffic or even, or any offer.

[00:36:54] Windy Keene: Well, and I think you have to be careful. I think that like everything is not gonna sell in a day and we shouldn’t expect it to, especially in a more normalized market. So I think like, I think setting everybody up for that expectation, just because something has been on the market for 45 days does not mean something’s wrong with it. But I think if, like looking at it from a seller perspective, like if you’re trying to prep, then price is really important. Like really honing in really not saying, okay, well I see that my house is worth like 350, but I really wanna list it for 375 or whatever. You know, like throwing that, like padding that in so that I have room to negotiate. Like you need to be able to say like, this is what my house is worth. Because I think what we’re seeing is, is that that’s not really benefiting people, right? Like it doesn’t actually like give them that padding. What it does is it just has them sit and they end up reducing. And then if they would’ve just listed in that perfect sweet spot to begin with, then they would’ve ended up with more competitive offers and probably gotten more. Yeah. Like for their home.

And so like listing for higher does not mean that you are going to get more money. Like really finding the perfect spot is really where you should be.

[00:38:06] Tracy Hayes: Market in 2020, you might’ve been able to get that ’cause there was aggressiveness of supply and demand. But now, yes.

[00:38:12] Windy Keene: Right. There’s a lot, we have a really good amount of supply right now. Mm-hmm. And so buyers have more choices. And this is just a more normalized market. It’s not a bad market, but it is more normal. And that’s a good thing for everybody. Yeah. But we have to be, we have to think about what that means.

[00:38:26] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Yeah. Think back over the last month or so, is there a situation, a client conversation, a deal, or just a moment that really stuck with you? Something that reminded you why this job is more than just closing transaction? Tell me the story.

[00:38:44] Windy Keene: Oh, oh, okay. Well, I feel like I always have

[00:38:48] Tracy Hayes: Stuff. We can go back more than just a month. We can go back six months if you need to do that.

[00:38:52] Windy Keene: Well, I would even say like last week, I helped this seller close. She was a young lady in her nineties and had lost her husband and she was like, great. She was totally with her, but her son was just kinda helping with some of the things. Mm-hmm. And she’d moved in with her son and so they were selling their home, her home. And we walked out closing on Wednesday and he just, he was like, Wendy you. I’m so thankful for you. He was like, you made this so easy. And he was like, not just the fact that you were hard on us at about pricing when we sat down together, which I appreciate now, but also that you

[00:39:28] Tracy Hayes: You had a real straight conversation

[00:39:30] Windy Keene: Having, I always do. I always do. I’m not going to, I’m just, I’m going to be honest with you. Like, I’m gonna tell you what it says and you can take it or leave it. Like it’s not, I’m not going to pretend like it’s something it’s not. Mm-hmm. Because all that does is lead to disappointment. Like that is not a good way to set up expectations. So if I don’t get the listing, I would rather not get it and been honest than have tried to tell them something that I didn’t really think was right. But he, you know, he kind of went on to say like, you know, even like he said, even down to just when we got the repair request, you just coordinated all that and you had people that were able to come in and do all of that because they don’t live here. And he was like, so you took care of all of that? And he said, you really just made this so simple. And I really appreciate it. And I was like, you know, it’s nice to be, for somebody to actually like notice that, like that like, oh, this is hard and it is an important job, right? Like that we, and that we kind of move into these people’s like their lives and become like their most important person for 30 days. Mm-hmm. Um, and are able to do that. So I would say, I mean, things like that are meaningful, but I don’t know what was what. You might have to reframe the

[00:40:38] Tracy Hayes: Question again if that didn’t well, the bottom is why this is, this job is more than just closing a transaction. I mean, the, the satisfaction and obviously

[00:40:46] Windy Keene: Well, and just helping

[00:40:47] Tracy Hayes: People see we all, like people see nice things. Yeah.

[00:40:49] Windy Keene: Well, I mean, and helping people see things through things a hard way, right? Mm-hmm. So like, I mean, I would say I represented both sides of a VA assumption, a few months ago that was super challenging. I had to spend like several hours a week on the phone with the bank,

[00:41:06] Tracy Hayes: With the servicing department. Yeah.

[00:41:08] Windy Keene: And, um, and just, and like, and I had to keep track and I had to keep escalating. But like, it was at the end of the day, like it was so beautiful that like my sellers got what they needed, right. And I was able to help this veteran get this really amazing deal. It was just really cool to be a part of that process.

[00:41:27] Tracy Hayes: Tell us a little bit about that story since it’s a great topic because there is a lot of low rate VA loans out there. Mm-hmm. The challenge being is making up the, the equity gap, you know, what they actually owe on the mortgage versus what the value of the home is. You know, obviously the seller wants that difference. Yes. And not everybody has that. What was the situation there? Did they have a down payment to

[00:41:48] Windy Keene: So this particular buyer had the cash mm-hmm. Difference to make up the difference. Mm-hmm. But I do think that there’s availability there, and this is probably something you could speak more to. Mm. Like, to come alongside that with another loan. Right. Like, I mean, so those options are out there. This particular buyer didn’t need that. But yeah, I mean, I think the tricky thing is, is with that whole is like timing, right? Yeah. Is finding a seller that can wait. A buyer that can wait and like everybody is good with waiting like

[00:42:14] Tracy Hayes: To

[00:42:14] Windy Keene: Yeah.

[00:42:15] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. You definitely need patience. ’cause I think the people don’t realize you’re not dealing with a loan officer. You’re dealing with a servicing department who’s servicing that mortgage. They’ve now had to take on this. So they’ve thrown a couple people over in this department and

[00:42:29] Windy Keene: That are like completely unreachable. Like

[00:42:31] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. So they’re not incentivized by any way, shape or mean versus a loan officer and pleasing a real estate agent. There’s no, there’s no, uh, relationship and, and speed and sense of urgency or anything. Not at all like

[00:42:42] Windy Keene: That. At all. Not at all. So that was a really cool thing. I mean, and just, I mean, literally just being able to help people and I mean, why, like, why I do this job? Why I keep doing this job is, is just because I’m able to, it’s never boring, right? We always have something different, a different situation, a different challenge. But it’s also like, I mean honestly like at the heart of things, like I want to serve people, like I want to help them. I want to, you know, really be able to like, see them move to this next stage, whatever it is, upsize, downsize, resize, it doesn’t matter. Like, I wanna be able to like hear what their dreams are, what their needs are, and really help them realize that. And I get to do that in this job. Yeah. And and sometimes it’s really hard and sometimes it’s just really beautiful and like, you know, but it, it doesn’t matter because at the end of the day, like I just like do my best and like, and work really hard.

[00:43:34] Tracy Hayes: It, it's worked out for 20 years. Yeah.

[00:43:36] Windy Keene: Don't do that. Yeah.

[00:43:38] Tracy Hayes: The one thing because since you were actually working both sides, you had a is for the VA assumption. First easy one is where, what's the seller going to do with the money that they have? In other words, they might have a house that’s, you know, they’ve got a lot of equity. Maybe they’ve, they’re just selling that house and moving to another one. They already have whatever it is, a seller. Back second is great because they have their own terms. When you go to a lender and try to get a second, basically you’re getting a, a second mortgage behind the existing low rate first mortgage. And that’s only gonna go to a certain percent. And it’s not always easy. ’cause obviously you’re dealing with a servicing department. Mm-hmm. You’re not, you know, if you’re dealing with a loan officer, yeah. We have products that we can do a first and we can do a second and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But when you’re dealing with certain, there’s a lot just things, a lot of things to juggle. So the first thing is like, hey, seller, you’re going to, what are you doing with this equity? Oh, we’re just gonna pay off some bills or whatever. Why don’t you take a, a second for six per six, 8% or something like that. What, you know, whatever the sell, because that, that rate on that first mortgage, I’m sure was probably 3% give take, right?

[00:44:43] Windy Keene: Yes. Yeah, yeah,

[00:44:43] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. So it, it, it’s hundreds of dollars a month easily, you know, that they’re saving the, the buyer. Alright. That would be the first option. Second option is, yeah, make some lender calls. Unfortunately, as much as I would think the VA would’ve moved on something like, hey, we’re gonna do a VA back second backing up the first because we wanna make homes affordable for our veterans. That would’ve been a home run. We would’ve been running all over town trying to find VA assumption. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Alright. You’ve said the biggest seller mistake right now is trying to navigate today’s market with yesterday’s expectations. A lot of sellers remember when their neighbor got that at the peak, and that number is anchored in their head. How do you actually move that needle? How do you have conversations that tell them to price strategically without making them feel like they’re giving away something?

[00:45:35] Windy Keene: Well, I think that one of the things is, is that that wasn’t, you know, it was not like a loss, right? Like, I mean, for most people now, if they

[00:45:44] Tracy Hayes: Unrealized gain,

[00:45:44] Windy Keene: Right. I mean they, you know, it was just, and most of them still have a lot of equity if they’ve owned for a long time. Now, if they purchased during that period, it’s, it’s a different conversation. Mm-hmm. Right. And those are harder, and I’ve had a few of those, like I

[00:46:00] Tracy Hayes: You’d say the pre, I mean if you think about two thou May of 2022 is when the rates went up. So values for the most part, I feel in the area, you know, they’ve, they may have gone up a little bit, some may have gone down a little bit, but become, kind of went stagnant here for the last three, going to four years now, would you say?

[00:46:18] Windy Keene: I would say that like the shift that, in my opinion, the shift that we’ve seen is mostly interest rate driven, right? Mm-hmm. It is not really value driven if that, if you can make that

[00:46:30] Tracy Hayes: Well basically, which equates to what’s the payment?

[00:46:32] Windy Keene: Yeah. And right. And so like you’re seeing that, but I feel like you would see it shift back right up if interest rates jump back down again, right? Mm-hmm. It is an interest rate driven value. Right? And so I, as far as like helping sellers realize that, right? It’s just showing them, it’s sitting with them, it’s taking the time, walking them through what the actual solds are and what things are actually selling for. And so what it would appraise for. So you can like, think whatever you want, but this is like what the appraisal would come in at.

And then taking that number and saying, but wait, we also have to look at what’s actively being marketed right now. This is what you’re gonna come, because if your house is like $50,000 more than the other comparable homes in your neighborhood or area, like nobody’s gonna look at your house. I mean, unless mm-hmm. There’s just something really spectacular.

[00:47:23] Tracy Hayes: Well, how important is it, you know, if you get a call, let’s say one of the areas of Julington Creek and someone wants to list their home, you’re going in there, you’re doing your due diligence, what’s has sold? What is for sale to actually go and look at some of those houses for sale before you actually go to the listing appointment?

[00:47:39] Windy Keene: Yeah, I would say that I do that sometimes. Mm-hmm. I mean, like, yeah, for sure. I mean, like if I, I mean like I would say I always do that, but I am also like really familiar with all of the areas right. Enough that I know. Like, I mean, a lot of them I may have already been in, like yesterday I showed a house and I was like, I had already been there. Like, so it was kind of when I got there to show the buyer, you know, I was, it was just kind of funny like conversations. I was like, yeah, like this, you know, we went around and so, I mean, a lot of those houses, I mean, I’m here, I work, so I see a lot of

[00:48:06] Tracy Hayes: Them. Well, would you agree, especially, you know, if you’re in the existing home market, the home is priced as you would recommend. It has its update. ’cause maybe it’s 15, 20 years old, but it, it’s been updated. Made kitchen renovated whatever, whatever update means, is going to get a little bit better price than if you’re trying to sell this home and be able to talk to the customer and say, hey, yeah, that one, three doors down, it’s got an upgraded kitchen, they’ve redone the flooring. Everything looks fresh. Your house is still showing 2010 build.

[00:48:41] Windy Keene: I mean, and we do have those kind of conversations. A hundred percent for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like we have, I mean, and it’s important too because the buyers are very informed right now. They’re not just, I mean, like, they’re looking at everything too, and they’re making those types of comparisons before they ever look at a house, and especially when they make an offer.

[00:48:59] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:48:59] Windy Keene: Like they’re gonna come in and say, well, I made this offer because you don’t have granite and everything else that is comparable in here. It does. Or what are, you know, like an updated countertop or what? I mean, they’re, I mean, I’m seeing all of the offers that I’m seeing right now are very much that way, where buyers are very informed themselves and are being really specific about how they’re making offers and the reasons why they’re making them the way they are.

[00:49:24] Tracy Hayes: Florida insurance has been a nightmare story for years. I want, you know, I mean, it’s ramped up when it’s coming. It’s kinda like the 2006. We’re kind of on the backside. It’s getting a little better. Was

[00:49:34] Windy Keene: Gonna say, I feel like it’s kind of leveled out a

[00:49:35] Tracy Hayes: Little bit. Right. It’s, it’s getting a little, I mean, legislators trying to figure out how to make it easier on these insurance companies so they, they don’t have the burden of all the lawsuits. Because I think at one point we had more lawsuits going on with insurance companies than like of the other 49 states combined some. That was crazy. Anyway, but buyers relocating from out of state often have no idea what they’re walking into as far as insurance is concerned. How are you setting expectations with buyers early in the process so insurance doesn’t blindside them in closing?

[00:50:02] Windy Keene: I mean, those are conversations I encourage them to have on the front end, right? Like, especially if it’s an out-of-state buyer that would not be familiar is like, hey, here’s a couple of insurance guys. Like, talk to them, you know, if you have an address, get some quotes, find out what flood insurance looks like. You know, those are important, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and I am really keyed into my insurance, so like as soon as I get any type of like as soon as I get the four point, I’m flipping it to my insurance guy and saying, make sure we’re good. Like, is there anything on here that needs to be done? So that’s gonna be a red flag that’s gonna cause the rate to go up. Like, and really being able to talk through that with them during the due diligence period so that they’re aware of it then as well.

[00:50:44] Tracy Hayes: What do you, what do you think about when you have a listing or, you know, to kind of check into those? ’cause those people, I think a lot of people don’t realize and they say outta state buyers, but I think buyers in general don’t realize not the data that insurance companies have now, you know, they can, they’re going in and looking at every permit’s ever been pulled on that house. When was the last roof? When was the last water heater? Mm-hmm. You know, wind winds, the windows, whatever work’s been done at that, on that house someone had to pull a permit on. And then they’re looking at those records of what, what’s been done, and to get a listing to possibly to, you know, go to the insurance agent. Oh, you know, that water heater hasn’t been done in 12 years. You, you may want to, you know, either compensate for it or just go ahead and replace the water heater now. So it’s actually a benefit ’cause it’s got a new water heater.

[00:51:33] Windy Keene: Yeah, I, we do talk about that, right? Mm-hmm. We talk about the age of everything when we’re filling out the seller’s disclosure. Hopefully like in the pre-listing agreement, right? When I just kind of come and do my initial introduction when we’re talking about my initial comps that I got for them. And then I will also talk through like, hey, like, let’s talk about the age of some of these things. Let’s talk about things that could be red flags. And most of the time sellers want to have those conversations. They want to know what to expect. And a water heater is a big one, right? Mm-hmm. So like, if you got one that’s like 15 years old, it’s like, hey, you probably this is something that we need to talk about, right? Mm-hmm. Because it’s probably not gonna pass the four point. It depends, like, I feel like that that age will shift and change, but like 15 years, 20 years, whatever it is today, like, you know, but like, let’s talk about that and yes, go ahead and take care of that. Because it’s not something, if it is something required by insurance, it’s not something that they’re gonna be able to just like, give them a credit for. Right. Right. Like, they’re gonna have to replace it anyway.

[00:52:30] Tracy Hayes: Right. Right. I always feel, uh, you, you work so hard to get to the contract standpoint. In reality, you realize that’s really a lot of times the start of your work,

[00:52:40] Windy Keene: Right.

[00:52:40] Tracy Hayes: Right. You got the contract. Okay, great. Now I gotta do all these negotiations that I just feel if you’re proactive and you know, if there’s a 15 year water heater, but when their insurance company comes back and says, oh yeah, you can’t insure it, or, hey, you can’t insure it, but it’s gonna cost you this ’cause the water heater’s 15 or the roof, you know, obviously those are the two biggest things that if you’re proactive. It’s, you work so hard to get that contract. Basically the fish on the hook, you don’t want to give them the reason to shake the hook. And that’s a reason to shake the hook is, hey, I’m not willing to, you know, to move on the water heater.

[00:53:14] Windy Keene: Yeah,

[00:53:15] Tracy Hayes: Replace the water heater. It’s a benefit. You know, that’s, mm-hmm. Because I feel you work so hard to get to that point of contract. You’d like the rest of it to be as smooth as possible. Would be nice worry. You know, we don’t, we haven’t had to worry about appraisals too much, but I don’t know, have you had a little appraisal recently?

[00:53:30] Windy Keene: No, actually I haven’t even on, like, I had like a multiple offer deal in March that I was kind of concerned about. Mm-hmm. Like, I was like, this is legit. It might not come in. It came in.

[00:53:39] Tracy Hayes: So, yeah. Yeah. The only, I had one, a small one on a small condo. It was like a hundred and something thousand condo. But it was a refinance, so we were kind of just ballparking versus an agent actually doing comps. Mm-hmm. And selling it for the proper price.

The NAR settlement was supposed to blow up the commission model, and for a lot of buyers and sellers, it created more confusion than clarity. When you sit down with a new client today, buyer or seller, what's the most important thing you want them to understand about how the compensation actually works now and how you earn your fee?

[00:54:13] Windy Keene: I think that I would say different markets are going to shift and change this, but in the market that we're currently in, it's very traditional in nature, right? So, I mean, I have that conversation with my seller. I say, you don't have to offer commission to the buyer's agent, but the buyer's agent is going to sit down with every buyer before they start showing them property, and they're going to sign a buyer broker agreement that says they're going to get paid 3%.

And that document says if the seller doesn't pay this, then you agree to pay it. So my conversation with my sellers is always, well, that buyer's agent is gonna schedule showing appointments and they're gonna schedule five, right? And before they go and show those properties, they're gonna reach out to those listing agents and they're gonna say, is your seller offering buyer broker commission?

And 1, 2, 3, and four are gonna say yes, and you are gonna be the one that says no, right? If you don't agree, and then your house is automatically 3% more for that buyer than the other four, so they might not even look at it. If they do, they probably won't strongly consider it. And so you're, I mean, it's, and it's not even just 3% more, it's 3% more in cash because it's a closing cost issue. Mm-hmm. So, again, I'm not gonna say that there won't ever be a market where that shifts and changes a little bit, right? It depends on where we are. If we're back in like, you know, the seller's market like we were before, that would've looked different if we were, we had been doing this then. But for right now, it's, I mean, like it's still very, all of the sellers largely are offering it. And so you would be standing apart if you didn't and it would cost the buyers more. And right now we want to make your house more marketable to that buyer.

[00:56:04] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. I mean, they may be a fully qualified buyer. They could go a hundred percent if their, their loan allowed them to go a hundred percent without a problem. They make great income, great credit. If you're the fifth guy who's not offering, they may turn to that person and say, hey, you're short on cash. They're not offering any incentive. Okay. We don't want to go oversee it.

[00:56:23] Windy Keene: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:56:24] 320 VIDEO: I

[00:56:24] Windy Keene: Mean that's, and I would say those are the conversations that you would have. Mm-hmm. And, and to be honest, there's not very many. I don't, I haven't really come across any that have said I'm not paying. So it would be kind of a standout, right? Yeah, it would definitely be, and it would affect their, it's going to affect their buyer pool because

[00:56:41] Tracy Hayes: I think a lot of, yeah, a lot of people really, which we didn't know. You don't know what you don't know until it actually starts to go on. But it's really no different than what it was prior where the seller is picking up 90% of the time. I do see situations where, you know, maybe the seller's giving two and a half, and so there's another half a percent, and that's, and the buyer brings it to the table. I have seen that a few times, type of situations. But, for the most part, the sellers are, you know, covering and you're negotiating obviously when you make your, your offer, you're putting that in there. You're asking for them to pick up whatever.

[00:57:15] Windy Keene: But to your point about I think the original question said like, they expected our commissions to go down. Mm-hmm. And they have gone up based on this.

[00:57:23] Tracy Hayes: That was my next question. What have you seen?

[00:57:25] Windy Keene: For sure, because I mean, before, like when they were just marketed online, what we had done historically, whatever the seller was offering, we all knew it. So it was like you went in knowing it. You didn't ask for more. You certainly wouldn't have asked your buyer for more. It was like, if you were willing to show the property, that's what you were going to take.

[00:57:43] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:44] Windy Keene: And now you've created this, all this documentation that says we're getting paid this. Like, and so we're getting paid that. Right. Like, I mean, so like it, yes, it definitely had the complete opposite effect of what I think the intention was. To begin in the beginning,

[00:58:01] Tracy Hayes: Which was a poor intention, which the Lord works in mysterious ways. But, you said that very well. That's actually, yeah. You saw, hey, you're only getting two and a half. So you're like, okay, well that's fine. I'll take two and a half. Now the buyer is asking for three in the offer. 'cause that's a lot of you are doing that, a lot of agents are doing that. They're making an offer and saying, and then we want 3% for the agent. And then it's, it's being negotiated. And more times than not, you're getting an extra quarter or half a percent than you would've the old way.

[00:58:33] Windy Keene: Yeah. And that's, I mean, and again, like that, that's not our fault. Like, we didn't ask for all these things, right?

[00:58:39] Tracy Hayes: I mean, it, it's great the conversations, but I think what now is agents are now thinking about their value and they're expressing it and getting it. New construction is a huge part of Northwest St. John's County just talking about big communities, big builders, and a lot of families making six figure decisions without fully understanding the process. What's the thing buyers don't realize when they walk into a builder sales office without their own agent? And what does having someone like you in their corner actually change about the outcome?

[00:59:09] Windy Keene: Well, I would start by saying that I work with a lot of really lovely and wonderful site agents, and so across the board I think they're great. But I think what the buyer needs to understand about that is that the site agents don't represent them, right? They represent the builder. And so it's really, really important for buyers to have somebody that represents them. I mean, these are big, I mean, whether it's $300,000 or $2 million, right? It's still like a huge financial decision for that person, and they need to have somebody advocating for them.

In fact, like I'm working on one right now and I just had the buyer call me that she talked to the sales manager and she let her know that I should get every bit of everybody's commission because I was the only reason that they were even purchasing there because like it had been such a disaster. And, and I was like, well, thank you, but like, we still have to work with everybody, so, yeah.

[01:00:06] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:00:06] Windy Keene: But I mean, either way I was really, I mean, she was really grateful and saw that there was value. Right. And I think that, like, you might not if you don't have that, but, I mean, like I would say even I've had in the past where the buyers decided to, you know, like I've encouraged them like, hey, you need to speak to the builder's lender, but you also need to speak to outside lenders, right? Mm-hmm. You need to check and make sure they're giving you the best deal. And I think in the past a lot of them really held the market with that, but right now, that's not necessarily always true. And, you know, kind of after seeing everything, a private lender was better, and they did not go with in-house lender, but the builder didn't communicate with the outside lender, even though they agreed to it. And so it really took me getting in there to get the lender what they needed from the builder and title just to make it work. So just having, I mean, like, again, they would've never known that they would've gotten a better deal with another lender, and then it would've been a really hard thing if they would've been trying to negotiate those things themselves.

[01:01:00] Windy Keene: Again, they would've never known that they would've gotten a better deal with another lender, and then it would've been a really hard thing if they would've been trying to negotiate those things themselves.

[01:11:28] Tracy Hayes: You know what this is, so I'm almost, I'm finalizing, I actually have two simultaneous manuscripts going on at the same time. It's grit. Grit is the word. And the title of the book is Grit. The real estate agents, who refused to quit. And I believe every real estate agent that I've had on, 'cause it's using the transcripts to write the book, help me write the book, it's some of these situations where, you know, a lot of people, when they heard the whole NAR thing, they were already throwing in the towel. They didn't even know what it was, and they were already throwing in the towel. They were finding excuses and, and people have been in the business for a few years mm-hmm. Knew what they were doing. So I guess that's, I think I like to think this is thinking of me and what I'm doing for you, but, you know, what has actually sustained you through the ups and downs in, in, you know, cause you have in 20 years experience a range of markets.

[01:12:13] Windy Keene: Yeah, sure. Well, I would say I didn't get in it for the market. So like, even though I came in at a good market, I think I was really young and didn't even know that. Right. So, I mean, it was almost more shocking that it stopped. And I was like, all right. You know, and then kind of realizing that, oh, like that's what this does. Right? And so I think that knowing that markets go up and down, but people still need guidance. They still need honesty and integrity and they need somebody to walk with them through big life moments. Like, this has never been about transactions. I serve people. Right? And, and I think kind of the other thing too is, is understanding that sometimes in our job seasons are quiet. Like, I think that, like we have, I mean, like in the month of March, I had seven closings, and in one of those I represented both sides. So it was almost like eight, and it was crazy. Like, that's a lot, you know? Mm-hmm. And it's very busy. And, and so that means like, I had to be extremely focused, really for like February and March. Like to just to sort of survive, you know, like, and get through it and be successful and take care of all those people. And that's like, that's fun, right? Like, it is like it's exciting and it's fun and exhausting and all of those things, but like every month isn't like that, you know? Mm-hmm.

Like this month I had one closing. Right. And so I think that, and that's okay. And I think that like realizing that and sort of like, and, and, leaning into that, not just realizing it, but realizing that like there’s busy seasons and there’s quiet seasons. And like for me, I really feel like the Lord like brings these people to me that I get to serve and work with. And so, like when I have quiet seasons, that means that he's giving me time to serve in other ways. And that's also beautiful and important and like what I need to be doing. And I think that like everybody like has to sort of like, look, take a look at it like that, you know, like you can be on this hamster wheel of like, I’ve gotta do it, I’ve gotta do it. And if I'm not doing this, I have to do that, and we do have work that we have to do right in the quieter seasons. It's not like we're just quiet. We do prospect, we do marketing, we do all of those things, right? But we also get to take a deep breath and say like, you know, like, what else is there? Like what, like what gives me life, right? Like maybe I need to go paddle boarding today and maybe I need to like, serve this young mom and like have lunch with her and encourage her and because I have time to do that today. Mm-hmm. And like, that's what I'm called to do right now. And I think that that's life giving and important. And so we can't just be all about numbers and work and like hard on ourselves. Like we can, we celebrate the big wins and then we realize like, oh, we're, we're gonna continue working hard and it's going and we're gonna also celebrate this quiet time too.

[01:14:48] Tracy Hayes: I think a lot of people, when they hear obviously on the same, on commission only, you're commission only. We're a different breed. There's some people who like, oh my God, oh, you, oh, you're not guaranteed a check and so forth. At what point do you feel, 'cause you, I mean, you got in, the market was great and the money was coming in. All of a sudden, boom, all of a sudden now we're dealing with short sales and foreclosures and things are dragging out and so forth. But at some point you must have come to a piece that

[01:15:12] Windy Keene: Yeah. And I think during that season mm-hmm. There was kind of a period where I was like, am I supposed to keep doing this? Like and is this sustainable? Like, it was, you know, for sure. Like, they were like, maybe I need to look for another part-time job, maybe. You know? And I never had to do that. I never did it. But I remember thinking that, I remember praying about it. I remember thinking like what am I doing right now? You know? Mm-hmm. And I mean, sometimes I feel like that's still like, but usually it's when I'm so busy and things are stressful, I'm like, what am I doing right now? Right.

[01:15:41] Tracy Hayes: Right. But you're always questioning ourselves. That's why we talk, talk to the Lord all the time.

[01:15:46] Windy Keene: Yeah. But, um,

[01:15:47] Tracy Hayes: Am I in the right place? Yes.

[01:15:48] Windy Keene: Am

[01:15:48] Tracy Hayes: I, am I doing the right thing? Yes.

[01:15:50] Windy Keene: What's happening? But anyway, yeah, I think that, yes, and I think for me now, like, I mean, accounting's really important and having a mentor that can kind of work with you on that mm-hmm. With somebody that's, is important. I highly suggest that,

[01:16:02] Tracy Hayes: Showing where the money's coming in, where it's going. So you're able to manage,

[01:16:06] Windy Keene: Really sit down. Yeah. Like, and I know for me, like, I basically keep, like I have a business account and I keep six months in it all the time.

[01:16:14] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm. And

[01:16:14] Windy Keene: I pay myself every quarter. So like every three months I give myself a paycheck and like that account stays full and the same. And if I'm ever like in abundance over and above that, it just goes in retirement. Like I just send it off the top. Right? Right. But like I live on that same budget all the time and, but like nothing goes extra into savings unless that six months is there. Right. So I, you know, like I could go six months without doing anything at all, and I'm still gonna get paid just like I normally get paid. And that's been my system.

[01:16:48] Tracy Hayes: Well, I mean, as you go along and you, you've gained the confidence. It's, so, and I've had many people on, you have to see where's the money coming from? How much am I spending? 'cause you need to start budget, start looking at these stats.

[01:17:00] Windy Keene: Yeah.

[01:17:00] Tracy Hayes: You budget, you need to start looking at what's going on. Where am I blowing my money? 'cause there's so many shiny objects that are thrown in front of you, as well as me. We see 'em on Instagram all the time. People wanna sell these coaching courses, they wanna sell you this. Now there's all these AI things, which I'm very curious to, to look at. There's actually,

[01:17:17] Windy Keene: That's your shiny, shiny thing.

[01:17:18] Tracy Hayes: Well, it's like this meme I keep telling people about. I saw you might've seen it, whereas this, there's this a group of people in a conference room, and they're just ai, ai, ai. Because that's everyone's words. Ai, well, what are you using it for? How are you using it? And we get thrown all these things that they want us to spend money on and really is, they don't really have anything. They're just trying to sell a coaching course to us so they can talk to us for, you know, and spend, we spend thousands of dollars on, and it. Well,

[01:17:42] Windy Keene: And I think that's something that you sort of live and learn with, right? Yes. Like, I mean, and that's just about, that's about growing up. It doesn't really matter what job you do. Right. And I think that, yes, there has been tons of things like advertising and that I have bought into during, like over the years that I kind of realized like, you know what, that's not, that's not really serving me. Right. Right. Or that's not my business model.

[01:18:06] Tracy Hayes: You get a return on investment.

[01:18:07] Windy Keene: Yeah. It's no concern. And so it's really like sometimes you're going to do that, you're gonna mess up. And I don't even think it's mess up. It's like

[01:18:12] Tracy Hayes: Every small business owner has blown money on marketing that didn't work.

[01:18:16] Windy Keene: Right. I mean, and that's part of it. And then like, but you do have to be, like you said, like constantly like take an inventory of that. Like where am I spending my money? How is it helping me? Is this what's right for my business? And then like, bringing that stuff back in and like regrouping where you need to like, I mean, like I said, like my main way that I market is to my past clients because it's my relationship. My business is very relational. Right? And I like working with people that like know me and like, and that I know or that know somebody that I know. You know, to me that's, that's fun. I like that. And so that's, so that's who I market to the most.

[01:18:52] Tracy Hayes: Alright, last question.

[01:18:53] Windy Keene: Okay.

[01:18:54] Tracy Hayes: Just to throw out there, read tomato.com and their hot take engine helped us with the strategic questions to bring out your business and talk about, so our focus questions were on where you work, where what you do, and we're gonna create some great content afterwards, blogs and so forth. So if someone was searching online, and it's, this is actually designed so people who are searching on AI find you and they find this podcast, okay, why should they work with Wendy?

[01:19:22] Windy Keene: Because I am going to listen to you and work really hard to hear your needs and work towards your best interest in helping you find or sell, and work just for you. That's why you should call me if you want somebody that will work really, really hard for you and has a lot of knowledge and, thankfully good people on my team that I can call and refer to when I have a question. Then I'm your agent.

[01:19:48] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, well, certainly listening to this entire podcast, we could have crunched that down for your answer. I threw you on the spot there. You were expecting that. But you know, hopefully what we've learned in the listeners, what you've learned, what they've learned about you today is if someone wants to buy in St. John's County, you are extremely knowledgeable. You have the patience and the professionalism to obviously win for them, whether it's buying or selling.

[01:20:11] Windy Keene: Thank you.

[01:20:11] Tracy Hayes: I appreciate you coming on today. Thank you.

[01:20:13] Windy Keene: Thank you. I enjoyed it.